Fact is Muslims live freely as equal citizens in Israel and have no desire to live under Palestinian authority.
Jews cannot live freely in a Muslim country and have had laws discriminating against Jews for hundreds of years. Judaism predates islam not only in Israel but in Iran, Iraq,syria, Egypt, Morocco and in all these places there are and have always been discriminatory laws against Jews.
Jewish people are the natives of the land, the aqsa mosque is built on the Jewish temple, the premise of Islam is there can be no Jewish state or Jewish freedom anywhere and not in the land to which they are native, it is all Muslim dictatorships from Morocco to Pakistan, they are fascist
Palestinian Moslems and Christians and Jews are very much natives of the land. It’s the same fucking people, a number of which changed religion in the 2500 years since the Diaspora started.
Denying that is the #1 lie of Israeli fascists. If you wanna be a Zionist go back to Herzl and actually strive towards living in harmony with your brothers and sisters.
There are druze , circassions, Muslim immigrants who came hundreds of years ago,.some came when the Jews came, there are many different groups but everyone knows that Jews are native to the land
but everyone knows that Jews are native to the land
I mean… yes and no? Filipinos aren’t native to Saudi Arabia just because they happen to be Muslim.
The Jews got ethnically cleansed out of the area ballpark 500BC when Babylonians conquered it, then when Persians conquered it less than 100 years later they were allowed to return. Islam and Christianity didn’t exist at that time. Ashkenazi in particular stem from a Jewish community in Rome, ca. 200BC, that is they’re part of the diaspora which didn’t return immediately.
Now it’s over 2000 years later and while I wouldn’t want to deny anyone the right to move to a place of religious and cultural importance to their ethnicity, but bloody behave yourselves while doing it. The Palestinians aren’t the Babylonians, they’re the descendants of people who returned early to those lands. And that’s actually what Herzl and the early Zionists did, but then nationalistic chauvinists came along, including people who aligned with fucking Nazis like the Stern Gang, and everything went, predictably, to shit. From that general fascist direction also things like forced sterilisation of black Jews in Israel.
Deal with those people, for starters, don’t have Ben-Gvir as minister for national security, accept that they’re the same shit as Hamas and Nazis just with a different coat of paint and act accordingly. Once the Israeli civil society gets around to do that a lot of people would be way more receptive to the idea of “but but Israel is the good guy here”. Once you stop making excuses for fascists and fascist rhetoric and myths. I know the average Israeli isn’t a fascist, they’re centre-left, but boy is there a blind spot when it comes to “security” rhetoric.
Arabs are native to Saudi arabia, Islam is an Arab religion but not all Muslims are arabs. It’s like the difference between being Italian and Catholic. Judaism is an ethno religion, they don’t convert and they don’t force people to convert as Muslims do.
Some pals may be defended from Jews but many groups traveled through the region over the years and there was never a cohesive Palestinian identity. Under Muslim rule there were laws against non Muslims immigrating. Under British rule Jews were allowed but so were Muslims and many Muslims immigrated at this time as Jews developed the land.
The arabs sided with the Nazis in the war and sought to restrict Jewish immigration. The British mandate of Palestine was all of current day Israel and Jordan. The Balfour declaration divided Palestine into Jordan and Israel, with Jews only allowed in Israel and Muslims allowed every where. Jordan was given to the 'heshemite ’ family who is not native, the entire country was given as a kingdom to a single family not from the region… in 1948 Palestine was further partitioned into areas where Jews were allowed and where they were not with a small Jewish state of mostly desert and swamp in Palestine, the Jews accepted and the arabs went to war. Before that point there was no Arab displacement or intention to but after the war many arabs were pushed out. Look up the 1948 partition. So at that point the Jews who were refugees from Europe were able to immigrate to Israel.
The arabs launched wars against the existence of Israel in 1955, 1968, 1973 , while Jordan controlled the west bank they never thought of making it a Palestinian state… When Israel controlled it they offered the pals states numerous times but from the beginning the pals refused because they will not recognize a Jewish state of any form as they have from the beginning, as it’s part of their fascist religion
I don’t see why there can’t be a Jewish state, and furthermore why Jews can’t live freely in the west bank, in Jordan, and even in Iraq , of Muslims can live freely in Israel why it the reverse ? Even under the occupation pals in the west bank have a better quality of life than most Arab countries and Gaza was way better off before Hamas. Israel has made rons of concessions to peace and that was their mistake, because they were naive leftists who believed that if they make steps towards peace the pals will reciprocate. What happened was they gave pals an inch , the pals used everything for terrorism, Israel clamped down and now the Islamic fascist regime uses thata as a pretext for terrorism.
Israel has made rons of concessions to peace and that was their mistake
No. The mistake was to first not nib groups like the Stern Gang in the bud, and then later on let that kind of thinking fester. You’re talking about wars against Israel’s existence but don’t mention that there were Jews in mandate Palestine which organised massacres against Arabs.
Are you aware of the term “Vergangenheitsbewältigung”? Israel has to face that aspect of its past. Come to terms with it. Stop casting themselves as only always the victim and ever only the victim and oh are all others always so mean, but instead accept, as history and as responsibility, that the state was funded in part on things like this:
Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: “Ye shall blot them out to the last man.”
Yep that’s Stern Gang. Remember that, as well as that they tried to ally with the Nazis, the next time you try to cast Palestinians as Nazis, or, worse, try to make them responsible for the Holocaust.
Jews faces discrimination in every Arab country. When the ottomans controlled Palestine there were laws against Jewish immigration, and of course not Muslim immigration. Yes Islam has been fascist for many centuries. Jews were restricted from immigrating and then when they were able to they attacked and responded to various degrees. It’s ridiculous to think that it’s not Muslims who instigated the attacks… Do you think small numbers of Jews immigrated and immediately attacked Muslims ?
It’s ridiculous to think that it’s not Muslims who instigated the attacks… Do you think small numbers of Jews immigrated and immediately attacked Muslims ?
Read up on the Stern Gang, please, on Kahanites, and so on. Even forget about Arabs for a second: The current Israeli minister of national security once called for the assassination of Rabin. Is that or is that not an example of something being quite not right within Israeli civil society. How can such a person, possibly, have a public office. People are getting arrested for “aiding the enemy” for speculating publicly about how a Gaza invasion could go down, without any access to or leak of secret information – merely educated guesses. Go down further that road and pudding prices will be the least of your problems. The Nazis didn’t come for the Jews first, Jews were like at least fifth in line, it’s going to be the same in Israel: First the Smolanin, then the socdems, then the liberals. And then the Arabs.
Or you can stick your head in the sand and kvetch while fascists are taking over the country.
So you think the Celts should kill all French and Germans, right? I mean they are native to the land, their ancestors were there before the Romans and the Germanic tribes
Jews are the natives of the land. So if you could imagine the British not allowing celts in England. Or white people not allowing native Americans in the US.
There are native people to the land who are Jewish. That does not mean that all Jews globally are native to Palestine or that only Jews are native to the land.
There are still some Celts in continental Europe (mostly in Brittany). So thus the Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx, and such are all totally justified in settling and displacing everywhere their ancestors have ever lived, right?
So if you could imagine the British not allowing celts in England.
Don’t you know? The Celts settled the British Isles and Ireland and displaced the people living there in the iron age
Jews originated in Israel, this is a fact. Jews have always been willing to live with arabs in Israel. It is the arbasnwho have launched war against any Jews in the land, the land to which they are native.
It would be like all the non Irish groups in Ireland saying that the Irish can’t live their etc…
And the ancient Israelites descended from people who came from outside of Israel. You cannot simply ethnically cleanse land of people whose families have lived there for many generations just because your ancestors also lived there long ago. I do not believe Jews should be excluded from Palestine either, just as Palestinians and other Arabs tend to believe. But the modern state of Israel is a settler colonial project that does indeed push out others with rightful claim to the land. The only reasonable solution, at least if we are accepting the framework of modern states, would be for Israel as it exists today to be dissolved, and the whole land formerly known ubiquitously as Palestine to become a secular democracy without prescription for religious and ethnic supremacy and exclusion, with the right to return for displaced Palestinians. This also respects the rights of many Israelis who, at this point, are multigenerational, and many of whom know no other home but Israel.
I should also point out that your portrayal of Arabs as a war-making monolith is extremely reductive and racist. Just as is your conflation of Jews and Israel.
Watch Journey to Apartheid to understand this conflict.
I don’t need your propaganda.
Fact is Muslims live freely as equal citizens in Israel and have no desire to live under Palestinian authority.
Jews cannot live freely in a Muslim country and have had laws discriminating against Jews for hundreds of years. Judaism predates islam not only in Israel but in Iran, Iraq,syria, Egypt, Morocco and in all these places there are and have always been discriminatory laws against Jews.
Jewish people are the natives of the land, the aqsa mosque is built on the Jewish temple, the premise of Islam is there can be no Jewish state or Jewish freedom anywhere and not in the land to which they are native, it is all Muslim dictatorships from Morocco to Pakistan, they are fascist
Martin Luther King Jr.
Palestinian Moslems and Christians and Jews are very much natives of the land. It’s the same fucking people, a number of which changed religion in the 2500 years since the Diaspora started.
Denying that is the #1 lie of Israeli fascists. If you wanna be a Zionist go back to Herzl and actually strive towards living in harmony with your brothers and sisters.
There are druze , circassions, Muslim immigrants who came hundreds of years ago,.some came when the Jews came, there are many different groups but everyone knows that Jews are native to the land
I mean… yes and no? Filipinos aren’t native to Saudi Arabia just because they happen to be Muslim.
The Jews got ethnically cleansed out of the area ballpark 500BC when Babylonians conquered it, then when Persians conquered it less than 100 years later they were allowed to return. Islam and Christianity didn’t exist at that time. Ashkenazi in particular stem from a Jewish community in Rome, ca. 200BC, that is they’re part of the diaspora which didn’t return immediately.
Now it’s over 2000 years later and while I wouldn’t want to deny anyone the right to move to a place of religious and cultural importance to their ethnicity, but bloody behave yourselves while doing it. The Palestinians aren’t the Babylonians, they’re the descendants of people who returned early to those lands. And that’s actually what Herzl and the early Zionists did, but then nationalistic chauvinists came along, including people who aligned with fucking Nazis like the Stern Gang, and everything went, predictably, to shit. From that general fascist direction also things like forced sterilisation of black Jews in Israel.
Deal with those people, for starters, don’t have Ben-Gvir as minister for national security, accept that they’re the same shit as Hamas and Nazis just with a different coat of paint and act accordingly. Once the Israeli civil society gets around to do that a lot of people would be way more receptive to the idea of “but but Israel is the good guy here”. Once you stop making excuses for fascists and fascist rhetoric and myths. I know the average Israeli isn’t a fascist, they’re centre-left, but boy is there a blind spot when it comes to “security” rhetoric.
Arabs are native to Saudi arabia, Islam is an Arab religion but not all Muslims are arabs. It’s like the difference between being Italian and Catholic. Judaism is an ethno religion, they don’t convert and they don’t force people to convert as Muslims do.
Some pals may be defended from Jews but many groups traveled through the region over the years and there was never a cohesive Palestinian identity. Under Muslim rule there were laws against non Muslims immigrating. Under British rule Jews were allowed but so were Muslims and many Muslims immigrated at this time as Jews developed the land.
The arabs sided with the Nazis in the war and sought to restrict Jewish immigration. The British mandate of Palestine was all of current day Israel and Jordan. The Balfour declaration divided Palestine into Jordan and Israel, with Jews only allowed in Israel and Muslims allowed every where. Jordan was given to the 'heshemite ’ family who is not native, the entire country was given as a kingdom to a single family not from the region… in 1948 Palestine was further partitioned into areas where Jews were allowed and where they were not with a small Jewish state of mostly desert and swamp in Palestine, the Jews accepted and the arabs went to war. Before that point there was no Arab displacement or intention to but after the war many arabs were pushed out. Look up the 1948 partition. So at that point the Jews who were refugees from Europe were able to immigrate to Israel.
The arabs launched wars against the existence of Israel in 1955, 1968, 1973 , while Jordan controlled the west bank they never thought of making it a Palestinian state… When Israel controlled it they offered the pals states numerous times but from the beginning the pals refused because they will not recognize a Jewish state of any form as they have from the beginning, as it’s part of their fascist religion
I don’t see why there can’t be a Jewish state, and furthermore why Jews can’t live freely in the west bank, in Jordan, and even in Iraq , of Muslims can live freely in Israel why it the reverse ? Even under the occupation pals in the west bank have a better quality of life than most Arab countries and Gaza was way better off before Hamas. Israel has made rons of concessions to peace and that was their mistake, because they were naive leftists who believed that if they make steps towards peace the pals will reciprocate. What happened was they gave pals an inch , the pals used everything for terrorism, Israel clamped down and now the Islamic fascist regime uses thata as a pretext for terrorism.
No. The mistake was to first not nib groups like the Stern Gang in the bud, and then later on let that kind of thinking fester. You’re talking about wars against Israel’s existence but don’t mention that there were Jews in mandate Palestine which organised massacres against Arabs.
Are you aware of the term “Vergangenheitsbewältigung”? Israel has to face that aspect of its past. Come to terms with it. Stop casting themselves as only always the victim and ever only the victim and oh are all others always so mean, but instead accept, as history and as responsibility, that the state was funded in part on things like this:
Yep that’s Stern Gang. Remember that, as well as that they tried to ally with the Nazis, the next time you try to cast Palestinians as Nazis, or, worse, try to make them responsible for the Holocaust.
Jews faces discrimination in every Arab country. When the ottomans controlled Palestine there were laws against Jewish immigration, and of course not Muslim immigration. Yes Islam has been fascist for many centuries. Jews were restricted from immigrating and then when they were able to they attacked and responded to various degrees. It’s ridiculous to think that it’s not Muslims who instigated the attacks… Do you think small numbers of Jews immigrated and immediately attacked Muslims ?
Read up on the Stern Gang, please, on Kahanites, and so on. Even forget about Arabs for a second: The current Israeli minister of national security once called for the assassination of Rabin. Is that or is that not an example of something being quite not right within Israeli civil society. How can such a person, possibly, have a public office. People are getting arrested for “aiding the enemy” for speculating publicly about how a Gaza invasion could go down, without any access to or leak of secret information – merely educated guesses. Go down further that road and pudding prices will be the least of your problems. The Nazis didn’t come for the Jews first, Jews were like at least fifth in line, it’s going to be the same in Israel: First the Smolanin, then the socdems, then the liberals. And then the Arabs.
Or you can stick your head in the sand and kvetch while fascists are taking over the country.
So you think the Celts should kill all French and Germans, right? I mean they are native to the land, their ancestors were there before the Romans and the Germanic tribes
Jews are the natives of the land. So if you could imagine the British not allowing celts in England. Or white people not allowing native Americans in the US.
There are native people to the land who are Jewish. That does not mean that all Jews globally are native to Palestine or that only Jews are native to the land.
There are still some Celts in continental Europe (mostly in Brittany). So thus the Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx, and such are all totally justified in settling and displacing everywhere their ancestors have ever lived, right?
Jews originated in Israel, this is a fact. Jews have always been willing to live with arabs in Israel. It is the arbasnwho have launched war against any Jews in the land, the land to which they are native.
It would be like all the non Irish groups in Ireland saying that the Irish can’t live their etc…
And the ancient Israelites descended from people who came from outside of Israel. You cannot simply ethnically cleanse land of people whose families have lived there for many generations just because your ancestors also lived there long ago. I do not believe Jews should be excluded from Palestine either, just as Palestinians and other Arabs tend to believe. But the modern state of Israel is a settler colonial project that does indeed push out others with rightful claim to the land. The only reasonable solution, at least if we are accepting the framework of modern states, would be for Israel as it exists today to be dissolved, and the whole land formerly known ubiquitously as Palestine to become a secular democracy without prescription for religious and ethnic supremacy and exclusion, with the right to return for displaced Palestinians. This also respects the rights of many Israelis who, at this point, are multigenerational, and many of whom know no other home but Israel.
I should also point out that your portrayal of Arabs as a war-making monolith is extremely reductive and racist. Just as is your conflation of Jews and Israel.