Specifically because I live in a hot climate, I’m always fighting the feeling of being suspicious of anybody I pass in the streets with a hoodie pulled up. I feel guilty because of racial profiling associated with hoodies, but gotta protect myself and my family, especially because in many cases the perpetrators of assault and murder seen in media are somebody with a hood and/or mask on.
I think you can be aware or possibly even “wary” if you see that, but I think it is a little absurd to let that become actual worry or suspicion.
Just be aware of your surroundings. Clock the person in a hoodie, make a mental note of it, and continue on your way. I feel like this is “how to live in a modern city 101.” If you get this thrown by seeing someone in a hoodie, then maybe you’re too anxious to be around that many people
I wear a hoodie most of the time. I don’t mind if you feel suspicious of me; one reason I have a hood up is because I don’t want to engage with random people. Sounds like you would go out of your way to avoid me so mission accomplished.
that’s a great point!
So, I was given some advice for situations like this that changed my life.
The first thing that comes to mind in these moments isn’t what matters. It’s what a life time of indoctrinated racism/classism/sexism etc looks like. The thing that comes to mind here isn’t necessarily what you think, it’s what you’ve been taught to think,
What matters is what you do next, after the thought has popped in to your mind.
I was raised in a very racist environment, and I struggled with feeling guilt every time some racist thought I’d been trained with popped in to my head, because that’s not the person I want to be. Reframing it like this allowed me to stop getting hung up on the guilt part, and work on the part that actually means something
One time I was walking through a city centre after midnight after drinks with friends - who told me to get a taxi because it’s so dangerous. I got to a pedestrianised street and there at the orher end was a group of tough-looking POC in hoodies. Uh oh. There seemed to be an argument in progress. Uh oh. I carried on though, to avoid a long detour. As I got nearer I caught the drift of the argument. “We’re only telling you this because we love you, mate.” Muffled sobbing. “Yeah, we worry about you! We want you to be happy!” It was teens in the midst of a full-on psychodrama, actually quite wholesome. I carried on home, berating myself for racial profiling. For a non-event it had quite a profound effect on my thinking.
And these are the kinds of interactions that people have in cities that terrify conservatives. Not the situation you described (although they’d be scared of that too), but the lesson you took away from it.
Just being around people that look, sound, behave, have customs, etc., different than you changes the way you view the world in fundamental ways. You may not even realize it is happening.
And most importantly, it makes everyone less afraid of one another. And this is how conservatives lose their power.
Well what I do next is keep them in my line of sight and avoid them. I’m not suspicious of their race, I’m suspicious of their clothes. If they happen to be a POC though, there is more guilt involved.
Of course not. I am the guy in long coat, hoodie or toque, big black boots, and face mask.
Crime rates have dropped massively, you’re being driven into a panic by pro-police, racist media manipulation.
/thread
crime rates going down doesn’t mean it’s not still happening way more than it should. not sure where you live, but i’m in a big city and you definitely shouldn’t walk around thinking everything is peachy all the time.
you can be vigilant with your own safety without being pro-police. the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.
if i’m walking behind a woman by herself on an empty street, i’m gonna cross the street because i understand that they’re concerned for their safety, and i know women appreciate that.
since crime has dropped, should women not be concerned for their safety? are they being manipulated by sexist media and driven into a panic if they are?
Wow you really flipped that around, and even ended with a strawman. How are we talking about women and not hoodies?
You shouldn’t feel bad for being suspicious of someone in a hoodie, but you should realize you are buying into pro-police, racist media manipulation exactly as the other person said.
When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.
the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.
Wait until you hear how many criminals wear jeans.
https://xtown.la/2019/07/30/suspect-wore-a-hoodie/
I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.
So I looked at your link.
The article seems to be about the fact that it’s racially charged, and that people reporting it may be doing so out of racism
But in the year following Martin’s death, **the number of crimes reported with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie” skyrocketed. In 2013, there were 1,243 reports, a 92% increase from 2012. **
While this was the largest jump since 2010 (when the data became publicly available), the data show the number of suspects being labeled as wearing hoods or hoodies rising each year.
This year, in the first six months, there were 2,510 crimes with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie,” a 29.5% increase from the first six months of 2018, which had 1,938 reported crimes.
How do you read the first quoted bit, then uncritically present the rest of the numbers as being in support of your suspicion??
You missed my point that despite caps/hats being the next largest attire being reported, I don’t feel guilty being suspicious of it. I feel guilty about being suspicious of hoodies because I’m aware of racism. I am not suspicious of hoodies because of racism.
You’re incorrectly assuming I’m only suspicious of people in hoodies.
When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.
I don’t think that pie chart shows that. Not percentages. Numbers of crimes.
Because if the stipulation is that it’s just as reasonable for you to worry about hoodies as for a woman to worry about a strange man behind her (which is the only way the prior comment would have been relevant) I continue to hard disagree.
I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.
So then, you are already acknowledging that your reaction is from pro-police racist tropes. Where is the argument between you and I?
let’s take it all the way back. you said i shouldn’t be concerned because crime rates are down. i say that doesn’t mean i shouldn’t be concerned. it’s all relative. i think it’s still too high where i’m from and there are a number of “uniforms” that criminals wear, including hoodies. i am conflicted about being suspicious about hoodies because of racial profiling. i am not concerned about being suspicious of a person in a trench coat because there is no racist past.
we each have our own tolerance for risk regarding our safety, and not sure if you’re a parent, but that tolerance for risk goes way down when you are protecting loved ones. you have a fair point about crime rates going down, but it’s dangerous to lower your guard because rates have gone down a little.
you said i shouldn’t be concerned because crime rates are down.
I don’t think I said this.
Overall my point is just - we all have our biases. If you feel guilty about being suspicious about folks in a black hoodie, and if bias against hoodies is likely to be of racist origin, your guilt is some portion of you being aware of that. If you weren’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
It’s OK to admit that, even if only to yourself. I don’t think you should feel guilty about it. But I do think you should acknowledge what’s contributing to that bias. We all have that in some way or another, and I don’t think you can move past it while denying it’s there.
I have cancer and I still wear a face mask everywhere due to a compromised immune system.
I also get very cold with my disease/medications. My blood circulation isn’t as good now. I can be chilled when its 77 in a room without a sweatshirt. My hoodies aren’t black but they are dark blues and greens.
Further, I have serious skin issues and always have that lead me to keep my hair always cropped very, very short. Meaning when I am chilled like that, I often have the hood up.
I am not here to make judgment on your position but rather just a reminder of valid reasons things like this might happen that don’t involve others meaning you bodily harm.
I am a big guy, and sometimes it feels a little tiring to have the default be everyone is scared of me despite my inability to defend myself before I had cancer. I don’t own guns or knives and my backpack is either full of groceries or PC maintenance equipment.
sorry about your health. i wish the best for you.
not nearly the same at all, but sometimes if i think i’m making somebody nervous (e.g. it’s late at night and i’m walking behind them) i’ll do this sort of public theatre where i’ll start humming and walking with a bounce in my step or something like that so they know where i’m at and to kind of give off a friendly vibe. that or i cross the street if i can.
I can imagine it’s exhausting if people are suspicious of you all the time. the people wearing the clothes to the commit crimes mess it up for people on both sides. ski masks for example haha. if you’re wearing a ski mask in public and it’s not freezing outside, or even if it is, that’s so sus.
I don’t feel guilty. It’s fair to be suspicious of someone who covers their face without context like cold weather or a medical mask (could be sick or concerned about getting sick). The trick or test is to ask yourself “Do I/would I become equally concerned if this person was in a different racial category?” If the answer is “No”, de-escalate yourself. If the answer is “No”, look for the other markers that are actually setting off alarms for you. It’s not just covering the face. As others have pointed out there can be a variety of harmless reasons why people might do that. But look for how a person carries themself: where they keep their hands how they move their eyes. Or maybe you are just paranoid about hoodies in general, in which case you should try to develop a more holistic way of sizing people up.
As a pale skinned ginger who will get second degree burns if I’m not careful outside I’m often covered up despite temperatures approaching 100F.
So I was at a convention that happened to be next to a horror convention. Someone from the horror convention decided to come to our convention in a pastel overalls outfit with bunny mask and lavender wig. Some of us were afraid of joining his basement convention afterparty.
I guess this is kind of how you were feeling.
I think it’s fair to be nervous around people who conspicuously hide their identity. I’ve been mugged twice and in neither case did the person walk up to me and introduce themselves first. There’s nothing wrong with giving people hiding their features a wide berth up to crossing the street, especially late at night. People who are just wearing what’s comfortable will keep on going without interactions but if someone changes course to intercept you - especially hurrying to come up behind you - it’s not at all racist to react defensively, it’s just rational.
People can wear what they want, I will judge them (sort of) if they are obscuring their features but I do understand there are a lot of reasons for doing so (including not wanting a negative interaction yourself). I’ve had busty friends that adore their hoodies because it lets them avoid unwanted attention and cat calling - but it’s equally fair to be concerned that someone obscuring their identity has a malicious intent.
Just like, be informed by attire but don’t pass permanent judgement - and if you get mugged because you’re helping someone that looks like they’re in distress (points to self) it’s okay - even if it fucking sucks you made the right decision.
This whole thread is just one great big self-flagellatory self-report session innit
No kink shaming plz
I always think of that scene from Hot Fuzz where they’re talking about why someone wore a hat low on their face.
“Because he’s fuck ugly?”
“Or he has something to hide.”
Both can exist and I try to keep that in mind. Someone wearing something covering their identity either is cold or doesn’t want to engage with people. If the latter, there’s a slim chance they pose a threat, or they have their own reasons that are no concern of mine.
I note these people more than if they weren’t covered, but I don’t really change my behaviours in normal situations.
You’re not doing anything wrong. A hoodie is a yellow flag without more information. Keep doing what you’re doing.
haha that’s fair. totally understand wanting to cover up, but especially where I live and during this warm time of year, it’s suspicious. i think that’s a good way to describe my feelings. it’s a yellow flag. i’m not reaching in my pocket for a knife, but i’m on guard.
Where I live, people of all degrees of peace come in all colors of hoodies and hood positions. More often than not, the people here who give a hard time just present themselves like everyone else. If I saw someone with a black hoodie with the hood up, I’d be more worried about them being Death.
Hah! What you do if you see Death coming your way?
I’d run and hope Puss in Boots is nearby.
Haha that’s a very specific character. Am I missing something?
In the new Puss in Boots movie, the plot centers around him literally escaping Death because he realized before the movie’s events that he used up all his other eight lives. So it’s currently a meme that Death is envisioned in that context.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
around him literally escaping Death
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Thanks, Pipey.
Ah haha nice. Thanks for the context.
What colour hoodies are you known to wear?
What does the color of the hoodie have to do with anything? 🤨
In a hot climate, a black hoodie is going to be less likely a casual outfit than a lighter coloured hoodie
it’s just a common color in general and a common color in videos of people wearing hoodies and committing crimes. it’s easier to blend in with a dark colored hoodie than a brightly colored one i suppose.
More recently, I’m immediately suspicious of someone who is very obviously not immunocompromised; wearing a Covid mask with the hoodie up. Especially if they have sunglasses on. That person is either bipping cars or about to steal something. Best to just steer clear. I only ever really encounter these types in SF. They aren’t worried about Covid, they just don’t want their face to be seen.
Yeah. Masks with a hood this far after COVID is unusual.
What if they just have a cold and also are dealing with the cold weather? I’m not a hoodie guy but still often wear masks in businesses and on cold days might also wear a dark coloured touque to go with it. Plus it keeps your face warm in the winter.
Where I’m at, it doesn’t get THAT cold.
Fair enough. Keep in mind you also can’t always tell if someone is immunocompromised, and it’s still totally valid to wear a mask because one is sick or has recently been sick.
I get it, but my point is the criminal element uses the Covid masks for a completely different reason than the immunocompromised, and it’s very easy to tell who that is.
