A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.
The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.
Tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles probably will keep the Seagull away from America’s shores for now, and it likely would sell for more than 12 grand if imported.
But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers exploded on the scene during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams,” could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.
“Any car company that’s not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market,” said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. “BYD’s entry into the U.S. market isn’t an if. It’s a when.”
A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.
Hyperbole as rhetorical device is getting exhausting and makes me extremely skeptical.
I don’t see a problem here. If the US auto makers are so worried, they should buy a few of them, copy their secrets, and sell them at a marked down price.
Turnabout is fair play, after all.They’d prefer to sell you a giant SUV or truck with massive profit margins and so they can continue to flout emissions standards.
Don’t forget our big three are just chomping at the bit to get in on the subscription model. Oh, you want ‘good’ brakes, well that’s $19.99/month. And there’s no ‘secrets’ to the chinese cars, I am willing to bet that they are just selling them at a loss. It’s not like they have to report real earnings to anyone.
They are just trying to kill the entire car industry. Which, at this point I could give a shit about. Car manufacturer seem to think that a car should be an investment… Except it depreciates.
Personally I’m not sure I would want that car as my only vehicle because I only have space for one car, but if I get a bigger place with a two car garage I would definitely be interested in a small electric car that doesn’t break my budget. I would probably use it 1/5 trips.
I saw an article somewhere on lemmy recently that had some commentary from an American tear-down r&d type shop that said they think BYD makes a small profit on them
Very interesting. But the cynic in me says that even if we could tear it down and learn from it, we would manage to negate the savings with other costs. If they are making a profit, even if it’s tiny, that would still negate the tin foil hat people from being able to say they are just using them in infiltrate our nation with their spying and devious ways. Well one would think, but tin foil hat people will find a way to work around that, because what’s the best way to hide that you are infiltrating our nation then making it look like you are making a tiny profit. (Taps forehead…)
This is an EV. There isn’t any emissions to be concerned about. At least not from the car itself.
Someone has to pay for the R&D to make EV’s possible. So far, that’s not BYD. It’s been US and European countries.
The problem is the companies in China are backed by government funding that allows them to operate at a loss. To be clear, no governments should be spending public funds on propping up automotive companies. It’s a move to try and manipulate the market.
The problem is the companies in China are backed by government funding that allows them to operate at a loss.
So are the Big Three, every time they fail to see what’s in front of their noses and get into trouble.
And they are setup for another fail right now, nothing but suvs on their lots and realistically gas has nowhere to go but up again.
Should’ve let them fall last time instead of the big bailouts.
The bigger issue is the U.S. auto dealership industry.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2023/11/09/car-dealerships-ev-sales/
If dealerships refuse to sell EVs, what can be done? Especially in states where cars can only be sold from licensed dealerships?
OK but let’s talk about the practical thing, how do I, a random American, get one?
I don’t know if the laws have changed but (for some reason I forget), a dealership here imported two three-wheeled small pickup trucks from China within the last decade or so. So it was at least possible within the recent past somehow.
How do you, an average American, purchase an anti-worker product created by an adversary government? Simple, you move to China along with the rest of the American CEOs.
Anti worker. Riiight.
That’s just you speaking the Big Three’s mantra. If they’d gotten off their rich asses and developed the tech for cheap, well-built EVs sooner they wouldn’t need Big Brother to run to their aid.
This is no different than what happened in the 70’s, so obviously they never learned their lesson then. This round, it’s time they did.
This isn’t about technology at all. It’s about labor costs. UAW labor costs more because its workers are paid well and they don’t get maimed by robots much. If in doubt, check the profit margins of the Big Three. The higher labor cost is also required because the standard of living is completely different. People in NA can’t work for Chinese wages and survive. And if you want to create a race to the bottom, that’s anti-worker. The shareholder class of the Big Three is still making disproportionately more than workers but this is one of the North American examples where there’s much more balance between them and workers.
Honda and Toyota posed the same problem and they were forced to create factories here in order to eliminate the labor cost disparity that would have destroyed the lives of UAW members. I don’t think many would have a problem with BYD building NA factories, especially if unionized by the UAW.
@Buelldozer is right, he’s just being extra spicy about it.
Anti worker. Riiight.
Are you seriously trying to make the claim that a Chinese auto worker is doing as well as a UAW member? If you are I want proof, if not then what are you talking about?
If they’d gotten off their rich asses and developed the tech for cheap, well-built EVs sooner they wouldn’t need Big Brother to run to their aid.
You realize it’s “cheap” in China because their Government subsidizes it and the manufacturers abuse their employees, right?
This round, it’s time they did.
I have no love for the American Auto Industry but this idea that BYD or any other Chinese “New Energy” vehicle is competing on anything like a level playing field is ludicrous. They are cheap because they pay their workers like dogshit, they treat their workers like dogshit, they have near zero environmental safety regulations, and they have near zero environmental regulations hell. 2/3rds of their electricity is produced by burning coal!
Lusting after a cheap BYD product just because you despise American Auto Manufacturers is literally cutting of your own nose in order to spite your face.
The Big Three have already had Biden’s ear for a while on this, which is why he’s quadrupling tariffs on Chinese EVs this week. Source
What? The big three are trying to rig the game in their favor again? I’m very surprised! …not really, it’s business as usual from them.
It doesn’t. That car will never be here without direct investment in U.S. factories.
From an Infosec and Opsec perspective, there’s no way I would ever purchase a new(er) vehicle, a vehicle with OnStar, let alone an American made EV (I’m American), never fucking mind a Chinese EV. Tiktok just became the last of your worries.
I look at both sides here, where every new vehicle has a chip that tell the auto makers just about everything about you … but cheap, well-made EVs should be available to the average Joe, not just the wealthy.
What pisses me off the most is the Big Three have gotten billions in subsidies/corporate welfare, and instead of creating cheap EVs to fill the market they build gas-guzzling SUVs and full-sized trucks for $60k+ per.
They have to sell cars. I hear the EV F-150 is selling like shit despite all the interest online, which really disappoints me. I couldn’t be happier with my Chevy Volt (other than it’s too low to the ground for my body to comfortably climb in and out of) and many would say it’s the best PHEV - or at least was for its time. The Bolt consistently ranks very highly among EVs. I absolutely disagree that American car manufacturers are dropping the ball here. They are trying to figure out how to make and sell these cars to consumers who have made clear they want trucks and SUVs with the cargo/passenger capacity for trips.
Cost of labor is higher here, but not nearly enough to explain this price difference (and is anyone suggesting we shouldn’t pay autoworkers good wages?). Something doesn’t add up. Corners have to have been cut to create an EV half the cost of everyone else. I welcome fair competition to help drive prices down, but I’ll wait to see what happens. I’m super skeptical of any miracle solution, particularly when the verbiage about it has such an emotionally charged tone.
Did you have the chip issue in the volt a few years ago? Man that was a pain, lost mine for months waiting.
I’m currently buying ford mavericks for my fleet, and really wish they’d get off their ass and make it a plug in hybrid. We need more low to mid vehicles in the US or china will take the market even at 100% tariff markup. That’s embarrassing, but the outcome of them all pushing to “Yank tanks” for profit.
I drive a 22 year old car that doesn’t even have ABS. Car tech peaked with OBBD2 for me.
Do you own a cell phone though? Those things can collect way more data than any car ever could.
I own a degoogled phone, and make every effort to poison, block, or otherwise make my data as useless as possible. I also own dumb phones for travel.
And it doesn’t matter if I own a phone or not, this isn’t that conversation.
Cars which won’t pass inspection in the US and are only sold in China are no threat to anything.
and are only sold in China are no threat to anything.
The export model, the Dolphin Mini, is expected in Europe in 2025.
When I post a comment that mentions Europe I keep that in mind.
Are you suggesting that there is a material difference of minimal testing standard between the EU and the USA?
Capital interests might have something to say about it in the US. No way they’re letting the government allow those in.
They might not pass inspection, I don’t know. But that’s only in states with inspections. Not all states have those.
They still have regulations and certain standards need to be met. I think it’s set by the NHTSA.
Unless they’re over 25 years old. But then there’s state laws for that too. I just want my kei truck.
The seagull ev being discussed is not 25 years old.
Where as the States with no inspection are impoverished shit holes, I stand by my, ‘no threat’.
California is the largest economy in the United States, and one of the largest in the world. It’s also the one with the largest market for EVs in the US. As an added bonus, it’s very conveniently positioned on the west coast, with easy access to shipping lanes from China. And finally, it’s probably the state that’s least likely to care if a US auto maker on the other side of the nation is struggling. Only fifteen states in the US require inspections, and California isn’t one of them. In fact, the only state that isn’t on the east coast that requires an inspection is Texas. All other states have nothing but emissions tests, if that, and any EV would be excluded from those, for obvious reasons.
Where as the States with no inspection are impoverished shit holes, I stand by my, ‘no threat’.
You don’t live in reality.
That would include Michigan, which is where they design a lot of US domestic cars.
That’s false. The same car is sold in Mexico & Brazil and probably other countries as well
Wikipedia
doesn’t have an article in Englishbut does have one in French :
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull
Speed, max : 130 km/h
Range : 305 km with 30 kWh sodium? bat. pack,
… 405 km with 38 kWh Lithium bat. pack
Lower cost sodium ion (?) battery tech.
https://www.moniteurautomobile.be/actu-auto/nouveaux-modeles/byd-seagull-11000-et-des-batteries-sodium-ion.html
Electric motor : TZ180XSH (permanent magnet synchronous for higher efficiency)
Kerb weight : 1,160–1,240 kgYes it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull
Might be a connectivity issue on your end (or the mobile link playing up).
Thanks, I put a strike through over the
offendingpart.
a threat to US auto industry? You promise? Cus US auto industry is a climate killing powerhouse of gas guzzling SUV’s. Any politicians wanting to pretend to be capitalist, or to be in favor of the environment, let me buy this car.
Okay but how’s the safety, reliability, and build quality? Good, or Chinesium?
Even if there are no trade barriers, it would be very unsafe to drive a tiny car like this in the US due to the number of gigantic trucks and SUVs on the streets.
This is why new cars has been getting bigger and bigger and leading to this “car size arms race”.
Or, we just want bigger vehicles. Pure supply and demand.
