The community getting the worse trolling and attacks would exacerbate their moderators which in turn could result in severe, expeditive moderation.
Do you feel this might be happening ?
I got banned from /c/news for having the wrong opinion about trans athletes in sports. So yeah, this place isn’t any better than Reddit.
Ironic that you are complaining about being banned from a community for sharing an opinion that other people should be banned from other communities.
That’s not irony. That’s hypocrisy.
At first I just thought you hated women, but your problem is much worse.
I’m glad to hear you’re having issues fitting in.
The issue only centers around women’s sports, where – before the issue of trans topics ever came into play – It was illegal to modify your body and then compete.
So if you’re trans and you haven’t undergone any chemical transition - then you’re still a man, trying to compete in men’s sports.
And if you have undergone chemical transition, then you’ve modified your body and you’re disqualified from sports.
My opinion is they can still compete in men’s sports; since all men’s sports aren’t really “mens” sports, but an open category.
How does that amount to hating women again? Oh yeah, that’s right – IT DOESN’T. I don’t think they should be barred from bathrooms, I don’t think they should be discriminated against - but regardless - the rules are there, and EITHER way breaks those rules; rules which have been there since practically the beginning of competitive sport.
Yep. They deserve to be banned.
I’ve had my differences with the groupthink and gotten massively downvoted, but never banned. Could be something more to it.
Misgendering and deadnaming people is considered just as offensive as any slur in queer-friendly spaces, and it’s hard to separate accidents from transphobia online. That’s my guess if you got banned over a trans-post.
Tried to make this as neutral as possible over whether you deserved it or not. I don’t know, but I do think it’s healthy for everyone to have queer-friendly places where us straights have to watch our step. Maybe learn a little empathy about what it’s like to not have everything cater to our comfort. Let queer folks have a place where respecting them is the norm and they can feel safe like we do in other places.
Removed Comment
It’s not if I see trans women as women or not. It’s if anyone has that doubt in their mind, and others clearly do; and these things have to be set for the sake of the most people - and sorry, but there are still more people who feel unsafe with you in womens spaces than there are people like you who would otherwise be wronged by the decision. So it’s a matter of a minority, not making decisions for the majority. You’re a minority, you’ll always be a minority (among humanity as a whole) so there are certain things that just simply won’t change for your sake as one of those edge cases; which is what you are - an edge case. A blip in the signal that we don’t need to upend so we can protect a smaller group of people than those we’re trying to protect to begin with. If you viewed yourself as a woman, you’d understand the need for women to have those spaces and anything with a penis to be rejected from them. by @kitnaht reason: Transphobia
Pretty much telling trans people to “shut up and deal” with discrimination because they are a minority and a nebulous “most people” want that discrimination to continue.
Has some dehumanizing phrases as well i.e “and anything with a penis,” etc.
Sounds like a reasonable ban to me.
You’re a minority, you’ll always be a minority (among humanity as a whole) so there are certain things that just simply won’t change for your sake as one of those edge cases
Just replace minority with any slur in the quote above, and it becomes evident.
It’s a shitty opinion but not banworthy imo.
Telling minorities to shut up and deal with discrimination while calling them things?
Yeah, that’s past a shitty opinion.
That’s the thing about opinions, isn’t it?
We can disagree.
It’s fine to have queer friendly places. However, I’vè learned to avoid those places as much as possible. Because it seems that no matter what, they will get offended. I don’t want to offend anyone. So in the end, they’re offended and I m sad about it and everybody is worse of.
So I just try to avoid those places. I highly doubt that that is a good solution. Especially if more people take that aproach. Eventually you’ll just create a big divide between “us” and “them”. Nobody wants that.
But that’s how it is.
Queer people have to deal with us all the time, often masking or holding in their emotions because it simply isn’t safe to let them out. Put them in a safe place and some of them finally feel safe to unload all of those feelings - or just stop staying silent when they need to speak out. Give them some grace because people like us often treat them like shit and they are rightfully wary and quick to demand that their social rules are just as valid as ours. You know how we talk about institutional racism? There’s an institutional straightism that we are completely blind to unless it is pointed out to us. Gendered bathrooms are just there tip of the iceberg.
Also there is a difference between queer-friendly spaces and queer spaces. We may at times be tolerated in queer spaces, but they aren’t for us and will not cater to us. Our presence may even be unwelcome because just having a bunch of straight people in a space threatens to make it straight-centric.
I once went to a queer bdsm con with a heavy skew towards trans. Straight people might’ve been around 30-50% of the attendees, but respecting pronouns was strictly enforced and the urinals in the bathrooms were closed just to make it more queer friendly. It was a queer space and we were welcome to leave if we didn’t like it and it was uncomfortable and educational.
I misgendered people constantly. Sometimes twice in a single breath. And I was corrected directly and fucking constantly. It was so aggravating because I was trying my absolute hardest to overcome what at the time was probably 40 years of straight culture. They didn’t let me slide, but they accepted my apologies and continued to correct me. And let me tell you, they were all some of the coolest people I’d ever known. All they wanted to do was exist as themselves and be accepted for that and that was all they asked of me in order to accept me and be understanding of my mistakes. Believe me they were not looking to be offended - that shit happens to them every god damned day, they don’t need to go looking for it.
I do my best to be accepting and respectful and listen more than I talk, and I’ve never had anyone take exception to me even when I’ve made mistakes.
Anyway, anyone queer is free to chime in because your voices are far more important to hear on this topic than mine.
You did nothing wrong, stop victimising yourself
I’m not a victim. Understanding and empathy feel pretty good, actually.
Hate is a burden.
Avoid trans and vaccination topics on Lemmy if you don’t want downvotes. :)
I think it’s a good place for discussing surface level topics though. Memes, big tech behavior, etc. Things nobody gets upset about hearing.
I think a better framework might be, don’t be bigoted and don’t spread misinformation.
Bigot means:
“a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own”
This is exactly what we see on Lemmy when it comes to trans and vaccination topics. People are not tolerant of opinions different from their own.
If someone straight up insults you, that’s against the rules on most instances.
People trying to walk you down from a position that doesn’t make any sense by dismantling the logic behind it isn’t intolerance of you or your opinion.
You’re perfectly free to defend your position, but if your logic only works in your head, then it’s not logic, it’s delusion. I’ve seen you multiple times now, you say your words, then get them completely debunked in the replies. But you don’t actually engage in a back and forth. You have no actual arguments. Yet you still reappear in new threads, still spouting crazy, completely unfounded, “opinions”.
A refusal to accept an opinion as valid is not intolerance. “Tolerating” does not require acceptance or agreement, but merely abiding by your presence. No-one owes an instantly debunkable claim the time of day.
And when you cross the line into something that demeans a person or persons, then yes, there will be no tolerance, bans. The only valid intolerance is the intolerance of intolerance.
I guess you are referring to my comment about not trusting vaccines? That single comment got 300 downvotes or so. :) I think it shows very clearly that there is point discussing the topic.
Just the fact that you think it’s crazy to not vaccinate is an absolute position with no room for discussing it at all.
So as a consequence, we don’t discuss these things on Lemmy. Most people are happy about that. :) I’m just saying there are topics we don’t discuss here. That can’t be discussed. This is true. :)
Also the one about trans people which was almost reasonable, but failed to stick the landing.
You’re trying to twist the definition of the word “bigot” to apply to those who refuse to entertain obvious invalid logic.
There is always room for discussion, and no position is absolute. That you think this is news to me is one the hurdles you will have to overcome before you can attempt to discuss things like this with someone who builds up their world view through disciplined reason.
That view on vaccines is crazy, because to arrive at such a conclusion, you must intentionally ignore facts, confuse feelings with evidence, and incorrectly consider anecdotal experience superior to statistically significant data.
You should examine how solidly you stand by your own unveriable beliefs, before you try to use the percieved solidity of mine as a point of critizism. I’ve change my mind on many things, many times, but you cannot make me do so by simply telling me to. “You’re a bit too sure about that” is not a counterargument. You must explain, and you must explain thoroughly. More thoroughly than I think you can, considering a watertight chain of reason that leads to your position on vaccines, does not exist.
Your vaccine comment was straight up misinformation, in no way supported by available evidence. The matter is “open to discussion” in the same way you might discuss whether exercise is good for you.
There are edge cases where a workout or vaccination can be unadvisable for certain individuals due physical or immunological factors, but the idea that the utility of these things in itself has room for questioning is madness. And legitimately dangerous as a view when held by people deciding over the lives of others, or voting on it.
And it WAS discussed, people had plenty to say in response to you, including me. But none of what you said was a bona fide contribution. You simply stated something you appear to consider true, but with no supporting logic or evidence. That’s not a discussion or a proper exchange of thought. It’s just spitting out words as if doing so in itself makes them truthful or worthy of consideration
A lot of people believing something, doesn’t make it true. Your conviction alone will convince almost no-one. Without further elaboration of the kind that others can actually follow, you may as well be speaking an alien language no-one can understand.
If talking about your opinions isn’t possible in a way that makes sense, consider, that your opinions may not make sense.
Because that is what you’re really admitting when you claim that certain things you think “cannot be discussed” on Lemmy.
Is there a question to me anywhere in that long post about yourself? You think of yourself as a rational person, following advice from medical professionals and scientific research. But somehow you can’t see why someone may not trust the vaccines on a personal level?
There are side effects from vaccines. I decided to get covid instead of risking those side effects. I had a mild cold for a few days, then it was over and never came back.
I had coworkers who got very sick after taking the vaccine. And several of them developed very weird issues with their body. When going to a doctor, the doctor said it was covid, not the vaccine.
So in short, I rather get infected with covid and let my body develop its own anti bodies than take the vaccine. Works very well so far.
Don’t try to “paradox of tolerance” this situation. Lol.
The solution is to not tolerate bigots.
You don’t see yourself as a bigot I guess? Just other people. :)
I do not see myself as a bigot, correct. I also don’t tolerate bigots.
I do my best to create non bigoted spaces by not tolerating bigots.
I recommend you take a look into what the paradox of tolerance is. It’s not too complicated of a subject in the scope of moral philosophy as a whole.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
If you are interested in moral philosophy I could recommend a few books if you like.
We share that view then! I also don’t see myself as a bigot and I don’t tolerate them. So we shouldn’t waste each other’s time. :)
