Idk about you but I watched the sopranos senior year of high school, and the premise of that show is literally “the party’s over”.
Didn’t watch that show, but I’m assuming you mean “the party’s over” as in the world is already fucked. Fuck that noise, even if it were, then the question only is “how hard did you fight to leave this world better than you found it anyway?”
I still love my parents.
Good for you.
No one hates their parents for having them.
Hard disagree from my own experience. I’ve met plenty of people across different backgrounds who hate or resent their parents for bringing them into this world, and then gave some half hearted “Your generation will figure out climate change” schtick when confronted with the naive question, “Why aren’t we all doing something about it?” The hate and resentment comes when you realize they were selfish and weak. If they really wanted kids, why not adopt? Oh but MY genes. MY heritage is what matters. Why?
Why not fight the good fight and protest instead? Meh, it’s just easier to live a comfortable life today than fight for a better tomorrow I’ll never live to see. I’m still a good person! I raised a beautiful family of people who will likely make the same selfish decisions, but because I cared and looked after them and them alone, I swear, there’s no way you can question my goodness!
Again, fuck that, hell yes I can and should question that bullshit, and break the fucking cycle of selfish idiocy. Not having more kids is the absolute least I can do.
Theres obviously room to work towards a better society while also raising children.
You live a privileged life for being able to fantasize that that is he case for the majority of people. Most people make little to no money, and had they not had children, might look at their shitty circumstances and had enough time and willpower to take a chance and upend the systems that oppress them. Instead, out of fear for their children’s wellbeing, they bow their heads and accept increasingly shitty conditions, all the while praying that somehow life will magically be better for their children. No, you can’t exert the kind of political pressure necessary when there are many more sociological pressures to simply feed your kids. The kind of pressure needed to actually change things requires your undivided attention and an exorbitant amount of your time.
Then let’s go over your post, line by line.
That’s incorrect. Nature is an ambivalent unfeeling aspect of our reality. This is the hand waving comment I was referencing earlier. It amounts to “The Earth will be fine. Humans should only focus on the environment as much as it relates to humans.” I heavily disagree. Humans should focus on the environment to ensure that it remains in a state that sustains as much biodiversity and life for its own sake.
I believe I addressed this as well. This is anthropocentric thinking. “Human beings should only care about human beings” sort of thinking. My argument is that the fight for a “better environment”, as you put it, is not for the sake of preserving human beings, but rather for the sake of leaving the Earth in a state that is better for biodiversity as a whole, that is a better world period, whether human beings go extinct or not.
Ultimately I hold human beings to a higher standard than the average person. I believe we are beings capable of great compassion for other living beings on this Earth, but most seem to think we are little more than a thinking animal. I am less concerned with preserving human survival, and more concerned with the legacy humans leave once we are gone, even if there is not a soul to appreciate it, it is still worth doing in my opinion because I believe that is the pinnacle of what humans are capable of, i.e. Compassionate Selflessness.
Now let’s address your latest comment:
Not having children is thinking of the children. Just think about it. If I tell you that having children will make the environment worse, and encourage you to not have children. Ultimately those children that do end up being born in that world with less people in it will inherit a world with an environment under less strain from less human beings.
Well I did read your post, and I stand by my initial response.
On that we are in agreement. The point on which we differ is on whether advocating for not having children is reasonable. I’ve made my case on this point, and unless you have anything to elaborate on, I don’t see how you’ve made a reasonable argument to the contrary. But of course, feel free to respond.
And also, in response to your separate name calling:
Another hard disagree. The human population is far beyond what it can sustain without oil. Oil goes into our fertilizers, our medications, our daily used plastic packaged products, etc. Without oil, we would not be able to feed and sustain the population we have now, the majority of which live in relative squalor. And we WILL need to vastly cut back on our oil consumption to stabilize the climate. Depopulation will either be forced through mass starvation due to lack of oil and degradation of our environment, or will be chosen by those who opt out of having children.
Repopulation is something touted by the rich to ensure a continuous supply of wage/literal slaves and armies for future nation states to hold dominance. Depopulation will be necessary in order to ensure the survival not only of the human race but also the majority of the currently existing life on this planet, as well as ensuring that the quality of life for those that do live in such a world can be expected to be better than what we have today.
Edgy? Meh, your perspective. Stupid? Debate me.