It’s why I happily soak up the downvotes all the time from the pro-Hamas crowd on here.
The second part of this sentence is likely why you’re downvoted. The whole “everyone who disagress with me is pro-Hamas / anti-semitic” is tiring, disingenuous, shoves aside any possible good faith discussion, and I’d argue it’s actually destructive as it muddies the definition of these terms. Anti-semite specifically is a term I don’t think people should be throwing around willy nilly, but by this point, 99% of the time I see it used in online discourse it describes someone who doesn’t think mass civilian bombings are OK, and maybe 1% actual anti-semites. It’s basically the right wing version of some “leftists” calling people fascists for having the slightest right of center opinion.
I usually either scroll past any mention of these or downvote and move on because it’s too tiring to devote time to people who, most of the time, are arguing in bad faith.
I appreciate your reply very much. We disagree, but I understand what you’re saying and certainly admit it is debatable.
I don’t think anybody who disagrees with me is pro-Hamas at all. And I definitely think Anti-Israeli government stances are legitimate. I think Bibi and many in his government are war criminals.
But there’s certainly many here on Lemmy who are anti-Jew and anti-Israeli and who always reply to Hamas’s crimes, either with whataboutisms, lies, or strawman, etc. Their comment histories are usually pretty clear. I regularly see calls for Israel’s destruction and decrying its right to exist on the world politics group. It’s accepted and welcomed there.
I appreciate you not just scrolling by and explaining earnestly and with good faith. And FWIW, I like your version lots better, but it’s just not my personal experience here in the Lemmy community.
Also, there’s a serious instant knee jerk to claim that any criticism or disagreement of pro-hamas propaganda is “playing the antisemitism card”. Yes, I think Bibi lovers do it in bad faith, but I see lots of actual antisemtic comments and discourse that do deserve the label. And all of ut is decried as pro-israeli proaganda, in very bad faith.
One of the issues rhe hypersensitivity brings is actual antisemites hide behind radicalized lefties like hamas hides behind civilians. And lack of acknowledging who they’re in bed with or lack of awareness of it is dangerous and at times duplicitous.
I get what you mean. My pet peeve is more with “real life” people. I don’t spend that much time on Lemmy anymore because, well, in a lot of ways it’s a lot like the worst parts of Reddit. And, in general, I’ve started to notice that “internet opinions” hardly ever represent what I see when I talk to real life people. So I tend to not care much about anything coming out of Lemmy, Reddit, Twitter, etc, as I find it’s often the loud very tiny minority.
But I have the habit of reading opinion pieces on a couple of national newspapers, and I’ve noticed the “you’re an anti-semite if you disagree with me” pattern a lot. Most opinion pieces by usually left leaning political writers have been more level headed than I actually expected them to be - in the sense that there’s a couple of them who usually hold far more extreme positions on pretty much everything else and have been surprisingly “center” on this issue. Whereas on the right, a few people who I would say are usually fairly moderate and level headed have gone hard on the “the left actually hates jews, they don’t care about civilians” trope. And it’s very confusing to me because I have yet to find any actual left leaning person who’s any relevant in my country’s political scene actively sharing that discourse. So it all feels like baseless deflection. It was the kind of behavior I expected out of Reddit - it’s been the case for years I feel that in most bigger subreddits any critique of Israel’s government would immediately make you an honorary anti-semite. Though that seems to have changed a bit after we entered the “Bibi is trying to turn Israel into a dictatorship” arc and he’s not seen as the savior of Israel anymore. But it weirds me out to see these talking points coming out of real life political commentators who I would usually expect to be at least somewhat level headed. In general, with exceptions from the usual crazies and outside places like Twitter, I have yet to find the big leftist pro-Hamas discourse everyone seems to pretend is all around.
The second part of this sentence is likely why you’re downvoted. The whole “everyone who disagress with me is pro-Hamas / anti-semitic” is tiring, disingenuous, shoves aside any possible good faith discussion, and I’d argue it’s actually destructive as it muddies the definition of these terms. Anti-semite specifically is a term I don’t think people should be throwing around willy nilly, but by this point, 99% of the time I see it used in online discourse it describes someone who doesn’t think mass civilian bombings are OK, and maybe 1% actual anti-semites. It’s basically the right wing version of some “leftists” calling people fascists for having the slightest right of center opinion.
I usually either scroll past any mention of these or downvote and move on because it’s too tiring to devote time to people who, most of the time, are arguing in bad faith.
I appreciate your reply very much. We disagree, but I understand what you’re saying and certainly admit it is debatable.
I don’t think anybody who disagrees with me is pro-Hamas at all. And I definitely think Anti-Israeli government stances are legitimate. I think Bibi and many in his government are war criminals.
But there’s certainly many here on Lemmy who are anti-Jew and anti-Israeli and who always reply to Hamas’s crimes, either with whataboutisms, lies, or strawman, etc. Their comment histories are usually pretty clear. I regularly see calls for Israel’s destruction and decrying its right to exist on the world politics group. It’s accepted and welcomed there.
I appreciate you not just scrolling by and explaining earnestly and with good faith. And FWIW, I like your version lots better, but it’s just not my personal experience here in the Lemmy community.
Also, there’s a serious instant knee jerk to claim that any criticism or disagreement of pro-hamas propaganda is “playing the antisemitism card”. Yes, I think Bibi lovers do it in bad faith, but I see lots of actual antisemtic comments and discourse that do deserve the label. And all of ut is decried as pro-israeli proaganda, in very bad faith.
One of the issues rhe hypersensitivity brings is actual antisemites hide behind radicalized lefties like hamas hides behind civilians. And lack of acknowledging who they’re in bed with or lack of awareness of it is dangerous and at times duplicitous.
Again, thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I get what you mean. My pet peeve is more with “real life” people. I don’t spend that much time on Lemmy anymore because, well, in a lot of ways it’s a lot like the worst parts of Reddit. And, in general, I’ve started to notice that “internet opinions” hardly ever represent what I see when I talk to real life people. So I tend to not care much about anything coming out of Lemmy, Reddit, Twitter, etc, as I find it’s often the loud very tiny minority.
But I have the habit of reading opinion pieces on a couple of national newspapers, and I’ve noticed the “you’re an anti-semite if you disagree with me” pattern a lot. Most opinion pieces by usually left leaning political writers have been more level headed than I actually expected them to be - in the sense that there’s a couple of them who usually hold far more extreme positions on pretty much everything else and have been surprisingly “center” on this issue. Whereas on the right, a few people who I would say are usually fairly moderate and level headed have gone hard on the “the left actually hates jews, they don’t care about civilians” trope. And it’s very confusing to me because I have yet to find any actual left leaning person who’s any relevant in my country’s political scene actively sharing that discourse. So it all feels like baseless deflection. It was the kind of behavior I expected out of Reddit - it’s been the case for years I feel that in most bigger subreddits any critique of Israel’s government would immediately make you an honorary anti-semite. Though that seems to have changed a bit after we entered the “Bibi is trying to turn Israel into a dictatorship” arc and he’s not seen as the savior of Israel anymore. But it weirds me out to see these talking points coming out of real life political commentators who I would usually expect to be at least somewhat level headed. In general, with exceptions from the usual crazies and outside places like Twitter, I have yet to find the big leftist pro-Hamas discourse everyone seems to pretend is all around.