For context, not everyone who lives on a boat is wealthy. I live on a ‘yacht’, a 29 foot sailboat. Your walk-in closet is larger, yet because it’s privately owned and not commercial it’s considered a yacht.
A quick google suggests a single mast sailboat can be had for around $50K. Which is a lot of money for a hobby. But it’s insanely cheap if it’s your house.
But how much does it cost to keep it at a marina per year? And repairs and such?
Don’t worry not asking to prove you’re rich and need to be eaten or whatever. Wanna know how much money I need to be able to say “fuck it” and quit my job and live on a sailboat.
Ok, I’ll break it down large, I want to see you out here.
1978 Bayfield 29, $11,800 (2018) cash cash, envelope full of bills. I put about another $10,000 into it since in upgrades. Larger anchors, chain, lines for everything, new standing rigging, upgraded electrical, home built LifePo4 batteries, GPS, AIS-B, LED lights, solar, wind, blah blah blah.
My dingy is a 2015 Riviera 12’ fiberglass $1500. My outboard is a 2009 Yamaha 2stroke 15hp $1600.
My rent is approximately ZERO. I pay jack shit to fuck all. I “live on the hook”. I have about $1600 in my mooring (3 anchors, 150’ G4 3/8 chain, crane swivel, floaty thing, two lines to the boat from the swivel).
If I was going to live here forever I would need to plan on replacing the chain, swivel, and the connectors every 3-5 years, just to be safe ($1500 just to be safe). I’m leaving after hurricane season but because I have a mangrove swamp I can hide in up to a Cat3 storm I’m here until Thanksgiving.
I have 550w of solar, a Honda eu2200i generator, a 400w wind generator, and live off of 400 amp hours of 12v batteries (2x200ah). Home built at less than half the cost of prefabs in 2020. I love them so much.
New sails will be about $4-6K. My sails are 8 years old and I’m fully expecting to get at least 5 more years from them. I’ve taken good care of them.
My car is a 2002 Toyota Echo that was $1000, I pay $100 a month to park it about a 1000yards from the public dingy dock, which 99% are free in the US. Down island is a whole other thing, lots of places charge.
I don’t have Starlink. If dickhole ever sells his interest in it, I’ll have it the next day.
You absolutely can do this, but you will need to become radically self-sufficient. I haven’t been to a slip or a dock ( other than fuel) in six years. I haul water by hand, I’m my own electrician, mechanic, sanitation worker, plumber, electric company, you name it. And paradise can fucking suck.
I dont have an oven, don’t have a toaster, I don’t have any heating or air conditioning. I do have some fans. I don’t have hot water unless I put a 20 l can in the Sun. Living this lifestyle is as much about sundowners sunset, bikinis and fun as it is about what you’re willing to fucking endure.
Marina’s will run you from $300 - $3000 a month. They are hot, noisy, you’re crammed RIGHT next to others and they are expensive.
If you want to get an idea of actual prices, take .25 up to .5 off the asking prices for pretty much anything under $80k. Search Tempest for Craigslist, search Florida.
If you decide yeah… I’ll absolutely help your effort and happy to answer any more questions you have.
[edit] Maintenance runs between $2-6k a year. If you preventative maintenance the living shit out of everything, you’ll spend a lot less a year. I do 90%+ of the work myself. I purposely bought a small boat because small boats are small problems with small bills comparatively speaking. And also when traveling to communities that are less fortunate than most Americans financially at least, it’s easier to interact with the locals on a small boat than it is on a large boat because they will accept you much faster than if you show up on a 50-ft plus.
The DIY isn’t that bad, because some nerd on some boat or some board or some website already figured it out.
I’ve actually been travelling for medical reasons, and my time here in Florida is done. I’ll be headed to Colombia to get my mouth fixed at the end of the year.
In summer it’s hot, in winter it’s cold. Its easier to be comfortable in the cold IMHO.
What do you do for work? Your costs are low, but they aren’t zero. I imagine it’s nearly impossible to get work if you have to go out to your boat every day or you don’t have reliable internet.
Also, is it possible to get/run AC on a boat your size? Florida sounds like hell without AC. I don’t think I could manage living there for long without it. I guess you can get in the water to cool off pretty easily though.
I quit being a FTE last year, I was in Infosec. Now I do short term engagements (under a week) in IT, and I fix laptops, phone screens, do electrical or Starlink installs etc etc for the water folk.
I have both T-Mobile & AT&T hot spots .
You absolutely can run AC, you either need a generator, or you need a shit tonne of solar and LifePo4 batteries.
Now that it looks like a storm is forming, I’ll be moving and securing vessels for the actual wealthy, and I charge a flat rate of $100/hr. (I’m the blue dot). There’s money to be made, you just have to hustle.
After 25 years in tech I’m starting to look for my “out”. I have a ton of experience with electrical (signals/rf too), plumbing, mechanical, woodworking, finishing, engines, etc There isn’t much I can’t fix. As far as nautical experience goes, I’m a novice but I recently went through a small boat certification course and planning on being a “trailer sailor” for a couple years or more to build up experience. I grew up near Charleston SC harbor, and I think the ocean is calling me back.
A couple of questions; how do you find work or how does work find you? Do you have a home base where your tools are located or are you doing these jobs in “random” ports you travel to? (You can message me if you don’t want to share your industry secrets publicly 😉 )
/edit Found your blog so I got some reading to do.
Work comes around by asking and telling. Once people know you can do something well you’ll get more work. You’ll have to diversify and lean into your strengths.
Guard your professional reputation with jealousy because once you get a bad name it’ll spread around like wildfire and you won’t get any work at all AND people will avoid being your friend. Oh sure other shit heals will be your friend but the respected people won’t. Water Folk fucking hate shit bricks.
Every single populated anchorage has “A Guy/Gal” who knows the lay of the land. You absolutely don’t want to piss them off and you for god damned sure don’t want to take work/money from them, so you don’t offer what They offer … Get it? If they scrape and clean boat bottoms, you don’t. This person or these people will be able to facilitate you getting work but you got to be on the good side and you cannot dirty their name.
Working In foreign ports without a work permit is illegal, It absolutely doesn’t matter who you’re doing the work for. The exception to that is if you’re a remote worker working over starlink blah blah blah. But if you’re turning a wrench or a screwdriver or a spanner chances are you’re working illegally, and you’re taking money from the pockets from land-based businesses, so you better fly under the radar.
So given the above, 95% of the work you’re going to end up doing is going to be for other cruisers. Because you’re not out here already, you probably don’t know that there is not a group of people on this planet that can pinch a penny harder and faster than the cruisers. So you’re going to have to offer work they either can’t do or they don’t want to do at attractive prices better than what’s available on land/in port.
Home base is where my cat sleeps. I have no permanent address anyplace on Earth.
The REAL answer you are looking for isn’t the answer you want. The real answer is, you have to get over your fear of not having a paycheque. You have to throw yourself into the flow of life and hope for the best. After living a life of steady, reliable income jumping into The Flow and hoping you don’t drown is pretty fucking scary. Your success out here depends on you managing and overcoming this fear.
My blog sucks, and I am sorry about that. My contact info is readily available if you look for it and if you want to text or call me feel free. I would be more than happy to help you in any way I can other than giving you money. :)
[edit] If you want to read a REAL blog, There is a guy named Alex Dorsey who runs a website called Project Bluesphere. He hasn’t really written anything in the last 10 years but everything prior to that is still relevant information and he did an absolutely outstanding job. I highly highly recommend it.
Any book written by Fatty Goodlander, especially, Buy Outfit and Sail, and he has another book that’s more technical called Creative Anchoring.
Dock fees generally range between $400-$800 a month, and that usually includes water and electricity. I think sewage is extra.
Best way to think about marinas is mobile home parks plus. Most folks there are just normals tryna get by on the cheap. Very occasionally you’ll get some landlord or HOA Karen type that thinks their shit doesn’t stink, but it always does.
Maintainence is the real killer for the wallet on a boat though. Mobile home units can’t sink, so maintaining the home isn’t as optional as it would be otherwise. You still get sea gypsies occasionally in floating wrecks anchored just off the docks, but that’s everywhere really.
Depends on the marina, one of my local ones charge $50 per foot a year, plus membership of ~$600-$700 yearly. But this is on a river with no ocean access, not sure how that would change things.
Local classified right now has a 29 foot sloop with extra sails, recent bottom paint, and a 9hp outboard plus dinghy for $5700 CDN. It’s been up a while, you could bargain down, the seller seems motivated. It’s a 1978 boat so really skookum fiberglass on that.
A mooring buoy costs around $1500 to plop down but sometimes you can get one second hand for less. (Every Canadian is entitled by citizenship to a mooring buoy or two.)
An equivalent RV costs around $15k with nowhere to park.
People who assume that they are going to buy stuff new are just locked into a class-based mindset.
Yeah I’m too poor for a boat but I know a few people who live on them because they’re a cheap way to live a chill life. It’s very possible to be working class on s yacht, I’ve also known a few people who move and crew yachts so it’s very way for me to imagine the human tragedy these attacks can bring.
I hope we can devise a technology to keep people and marine life safe.
A 29’ boat isn’t going to have a 29’ liveable area.
First off, a boat narrows so much at the front that a 29’ boat is really closer to 25’ at best. Then it might be 10 feet wide, so you’re looking at about 250 square feet. Most of that is gonna be deck so cut that in half again if you want your living space to be out of the elements.
When you go under the deck you might think there would be plenty of room, but you need to have fuel, engine, generator, bilge, etc.
So in your remaining closet-sized space you need to be able to eat, sleep, cook, use the restroom, store your shit, entertain yourself, etc.
Around here you can buy a serviceable 29-foot sailboat for $5k, and a mooring buoy for $1k. It’s cheaper than a van by the river FFS.
People who live on sub-40-ft sailboats are usually just hanging in there. Source: that was nearly me before my fortunes changed slightly. Boats are underpriced because they are a lot of work.
My sister is a corporate executive. Her walk in closet is objectively larger than a 29-ft live aboard. Hell her ensuite bathroom is bigger than that and she lives in a duplex. You are lacking real world context I think.
I own a house worth x amount of dollars, where “x” is average for a house in my area, and not even close to “rich” amount.
If I sold my house and put that same “x” amount towards a seafaring houseboat of equal value (including all expenses for owning an oceanic home), I’m still not rich.
If I sail that boat into the small, avoidable swimming grounds of an endangered species (only 50 members of this local group remain) and then whine when that species attacks my boat, then I’d be an asshole. But still not rich. Probably even further from it - since I’m sure insurance companies wouldn’t cover my stupidity.
Wait, what do you mean only 50 living members remain? A quick (admittedly too quick) Google search yields the number 50000, did you forget a “thousand”? Or is the situation even more dire?
For context, not everyone who lives on a boat is wealthy. I live on a ‘yacht’, a 29 foot sailboat. Your walk-in closet is larger, yet because it’s privately owned and not commercial it’s considered a yacht.
Your hate is misplaced.
A 29’ boat isn’t small, what kind of walk-in closet do you think people have? Your comment makes you seem really out of touch.
29’ to live on fulltime 24/7/365 is small as fuck. 8 steps, that’s the entirety of my living space.
I’m not out of touch, you just have no understanding of small sailboats. From the front to the back on deck is 12 steps bro.
A quick google suggests a single mast sailboat can be had for around $50K. Which is a lot of money for a hobby. But it’s insanely cheap if it’s your house.
But how much does it cost to keep it at a marina per year? And repairs and such?
Don’t worry not asking to prove you’re rich and need to be eaten or whatever. Wanna know how much money I need to be able to say “fuck it” and quit my job and live on a sailboat.
Ok, I’ll break it down large, I want to see you out here.
1978 Bayfield 29, $11,800 (2018) cash cash, envelope full of bills. I put about another $10,000 into it since in upgrades. Larger anchors, chain, lines for everything, new standing rigging, upgraded electrical, home built LifePo4 batteries, GPS, AIS-B, LED lights, solar, wind, blah blah blah.
My dingy is a 2015 Riviera 12’ fiberglass $1500. My outboard is a 2009 Yamaha 2stroke 15hp $1600.
My rent is approximately ZERO. I pay jack shit to fuck all. I “live on the hook”. I have about $1600 in my mooring (3 anchors, 150’ G4 3/8 chain, crane swivel, floaty thing, two lines to the boat from the swivel).
If I was going to live here forever I would need to plan on replacing the chain, swivel, and the connectors every 3-5 years, just to be safe ($1500 just to be safe). I’m leaving after hurricane season but because I have a mangrove swamp I can hide in up to a Cat3 storm I’m here until Thanksgiving.
I have 550w of solar, a Honda eu2200i generator, a 400w wind generator, and live off of 400 amp hours of 12v batteries (2x200ah). Home built at less than half the cost of prefabs in 2020. I love them so much.
New sails will be about $4-6K. My sails are 8 years old and I’m fully expecting to get at least 5 more years from them. I’ve taken good care of them.
My car is a 2002 Toyota Echo that was $1000, I pay $100 a month to park it about a 1000yards from the public dingy dock, which 99% are free in the US. Down island is a whole other thing, lots of places charge.
I don’t have Starlink. If dickhole ever sells his interest in it, I’ll have it the next day.
You absolutely can do this, but you will need to become radically self-sufficient. I haven’t been to a slip or a dock ( other than fuel) in six years. I haul water by hand, I’m my own electrician, mechanic, sanitation worker, plumber, electric company, you name it. And paradise can fucking suck.
I dont have an oven, don’t have a toaster, I don’t have any heating or air conditioning. I do have some fans. I don’t have hot water unless I put a 20 l can in the Sun. Living this lifestyle is as much about sundowners sunset, bikinis and fun as it is about what you’re willing to fucking endure.
Marina’s will run you from $300 - $3000 a month. They are hot, noisy, you’re crammed RIGHT next to others and they are expensive.
If you want to get an idea of actual prices, take .25 up to .5 off the asking prices for pretty much anything under $80k. Search Tempest for Craigslist, search Florida.
If you decide yeah… I’ll absolutely help your effort and happy to answer any more questions you have.
[edit] Maintenance runs between $2-6k a year. If you preventative maintenance the living shit out of everything, you’ll spend a lot less a year. I do 90%+ of the work myself. I purposely bought a small boat because small boats are small problems with small bills comparatively speaking. And also when traveling to communities that are less fortunate than most Americans financially at least, it’s easier to interact with the locals on a small boat than it is on a large boat because they will accept you much faster than if you show up on a 50-ft plus.
Fascinating! Thanks for the impromptu AMA!
I couldn’t do half of the DIY stuff that you seem to put it. Just here to say that sounds damn impressive.
I guess you travel to follow warm weather? Or how is life in winter?
The DIY isn’t that bad, because some nerd on some boat or some board or some website already figured it out.
I’ve actually been travelling for medical reasons, and my time here in Florida is done. I’ll be headed to Colombia to get my mouth fixed at the end of the year.
In summer it’s hot, in winter it’s cold. Its easier to be comfortable in the cold IMHO.
I’m drowning in this text, I’d be dead inside a month.
Don’t sell yourself short. I guarantee you’re way more capable than you give yourself credit for.
What do you do for work? Your costs are low, but they aren’t zero. I imagine it’s nearly impossible to get work if you have to go out to your boat every day or you don’t have reliable internet.
Also, is it possible to get/run AC on a boat your size? Florida sounds like hell without AC. I don’t think I could manage living there for long without it. I guess you can get in the water to cool off pretty easily though.
I quit being a FTE last year, I was in Infosec. Now I do short term engagements (under a week) in IT, and I fix laptops, phone screens, do electrical or Starlink installs etc etc for the water folk.
I have both T-Mobile & AT&T hot spots .
You absolutely can run AC, you either need a generator, or you need a shit tonne of solar and LifePo4 batteries.
Now that it looks like a storm is forming, I’ll be moving and securing vessels for the actual wealthy, and I charge a flat rate of $100/hr. (I’m the blue dot). There’s money to be made, you just have to hustle.
After 25 years in tech I’m starting to look for my “out”. I have a ton of experience with electrical (signals/rf too), plumbing, mechanical, woodworking, finishing, engines, etc There isn’t much I can’t fix. As far as nautical experience goes, I’m a novice but I recently went through a small boat certification course and planning on being a “trailer sailor” for a couple years or more to build up experience. I grew up near Charleston SC harbor, and I think the ocean is calling me back.
A couple of questions; how do you find work or how does work find you? Do you have a home base where your tools are located or are you doing these jobs in “random” ports you travel to? (You can message me if you don’t want to share your industry secrets publicly 😉 )
/edit Found your blog so I got some reading to do.
Work comes around by asking and telling. Once people know you can do something well you’ll get more work. You’ll have to diversify and lean into your strengths.
Guard your professional reputation with jealousy because once you get a bad name it’ll spread around like wildfire and you won’t get any work at all AND people will avoid being your friend. Oh sure other shit heals will be your friend but the respected people won’t. Water Folk fucking hate shit bricks.
Every single populated anchorage has “A Guy/Gal” who knows the lay of the land. You absolutely don’t want to piss them off and you for god damned sure don’t want to take work/money from them, so you don’t offer what They offer … Get it? If they scrape and clean boat bottoms, you don’t. This person or these people will be able to facilitate you getting work but you got to be on the good side and you cannot dirty their name.
Working In foreign ports without a work permit is illegal, It absolutely doesn’t matter who you’re doing the work for. The exception to that is if you’re a remote worker working over starlink blah blah blah. But if you’re turning a wrench or a screwdriver or a spanner chances are you’re working illegally, and you’re taking money from the pockets from land-based businesses, so you better fly under the radar.
So given the above, 95% of the work you’re going to end up doing is going to be for other cruisers. Because you’re not out here already, you probably don’t know that there is not a group of people on this planet that can pinch a penny harder and faster than the cruisers. So you’re going to have to offer work they either can’t do or they don’t want to do at attractive prices better than what’s available on land/in port.
Home base is where my cat sleeps. I have no permanent address anyplace on Earth.
The REAL answer you are looking for isn’t the answer you want. The real answer is, you have to get over your fear of not having a paycheque. You have to throw yourself into the flow of life and hope for the best. After living a life of steady, reliable income jumping into The Flow and hoping you don’t drown is pretty fucking scary. Your success out here depends on you managing and overcoming this fear.
My blog sucks, and I am sorry about that. My contact info is readily available if you look for it and if you want to text or call me feel free. I would be more than happy to help you in any way I can other than giving you money. :)
[edit] If you want to read a REAL blog, There is a guy named Alex Dorsey who runs a website called Project Bluesphere. He hasn’t really written anything in the last 10 years but everything prior to that is still relevant information and he did an absolutely outstanding job. I highly highly recommend it.
Any book written by Fatty Goodlander, especially, Buy Outfit and Sail, and he has another book that’s more technical called Creative Anchoring.
Awesome info. Thanks for the write up. Have always been curious about the economics.
thank you for sharing… learned a lot
Dock fees generally range between $400-$800 a month, and that usually includes water and electricity. I think sewage is extra.
Best way to think about marinas is mobile home parks plus. Most folks there are just normals tryna get by on the cheap. Very occasionally you’ll get some landlord or HOA Karen type that thinks their shit doesn’t stink, but it always does.
Maintainence is the real killer for the wallet on a boat though. Mobile home units can’t sink, so maintaining the home isn’t as optional as it would be otherwise. You still get sea gypsies occasionally in floating wrecks anchored just off the docks, but that’s everywhere really.
Depends on the marina, one of my local ones charge $50 per foot a year, plus membership of ~$600-$700 yearly. But this is on a river with no ocean access, not sure how that would change things.
That’s actually very reasonable. Yeah I’m sure it’s way more money on like the French Riviera, but I don’t want to go to places like that.
I gotta learn how to sail tho haha.
Believe it or not a large portion of learning to sail is Keep Air In Keep Water Out, so you already know more than you thought.
Local classified right now has a 29 foot sloop with extra sails, recent bottom paint, and a 9hp outboard plus dinghy for $5700 CDN. It’s been up a while, you could bargain down, the seller seems motivated. It’s a 1978 boat so really skookum fiberglass on that.
A mooring buoy costs around $1500 to plop down but sometimes you can get one second hand for less. (Every Canadian is entitled by citizenship to a mooring buoy or two.)
An equivalent RV costs around $15k with nowhere to park.
People who assume that they are going to buy stuff new are just locked into a class-based mindset.
Yeah I’m too poor for a boat but I know a few people who live on them because they’re a cheap way to live a chill life. It’s very possible to be working class on s yacht, I’ve also known a few people who move and crew yachts so it’s very way for me to imagine the human tragedy these attacks can bring.
I hope we can devise a technology to keep people and marine life safe.
A 29’ boat isn’t going to have a 29’ liveable area.
First off, a boat narrows so much at the front that a 29’ boat is really closer to 25’ at best. Then it might be 10 feet wide, so you’re looking at about 250 square feet. Most of that is gonna be deck so cut that in half again if you want your living space to be out of the elements.
When you go under the deck you might think there would be plenty of room, but you need to have fuel, engine, generator, bilge, etc.
So in your remaining closet-sized space you need to be able to eat, sleep, cook, use the restroom, store your shit, entertain yourself, etc.
If they actually live on it instead of owning a house, I’d still not consider them part of the rich who should be eaten.
A 29’ boat is absolutely tiny to live on. The overwhelming majority is taken up by things the boat needs to be a boat
And the rest of the space taken up by shit that keeps me from dying.
But your back yard is infinite.
Boats are the original tiny home.
Around here you can buy a serviceable 29-foot sailboat for $5k, and a mooring buoy for $1k. It’s cheaper than a van by the river FFS.
People who live on sub-40-ft sailboats are usually just hanging in there. Source: that was nearly me before my fortunes changed slightly. Boats are underpriced because they are a lot of work.
My sister is a corporate executive. Her walk in closet is objectively larger than a 29-ft live aboard. Hell her ensuite bathroom is bigger than that and she lives in a duplex. You are lacking real world context I think.
For more context. This was a Oceanis 393. so about $100k boat. And it was in the Strait of Gibralter. Not the poorest area of the world.
For context that’s where the Orcas are
It’s unfortunate that the orcas can’t tell the difference between rich assholes with yachts, and normal assholes with yachts.
I guess maybe staying out of their tiny part of the ocean while they’re using it is the only thing a person with a yacht can do.
Every yacht is a rich asshole yacht.
That’s not a fair generalization.
I own a house worth x amount of dollars, where “x” is average for a house in my area, and not even close to “rich” amount.
If I sold my house and put that same “x” amount towards a seafaring houseboat of equal value (including all expenses for owning an oceanic home), I’m still not rich.
If I sail that boat into the small, avoidable swimming grounds of an endangered species (only 50 members of this local group remain) and then whine when that species attacks my boat, then I’d be an asshole. But still not rich. Probably even further from it - since I’m sure insurance companies wouldn’t cover my stupidity.
Wait, what do you mean only 50 living members remain? A quick (admittedly too quick) Google search yields the number 50000, did you forget a “thousand”? Or is the situation even more dire?
My mistake, I misread the data. It’s 50 members of the locally protected group off the coast of Spain. I’ve corrected the text above.
Thanks for catching that.
That is still worrisome. Thank you!
“I’m not that rich!” Thinks most people have a fucking walk in closet
bruh
Yeah you got me. I think everybody has a walk-in closet because I didn’t specifically state otherwise in my post
“Your walk-in closet” implies an expectation that the reader has a walk-in closet.
“A walk-in closet” would be more appropriate if that impression wasn’t intended.
Can I just give you my login and you change it?
Was genuinely trying to be helpful in case English wasn’t your first language. My bad, you’re just an asshole.
Too bad there’s no setting in your account to give you a better personality :(
Wish I could give you a spoon so you could eat my ass
LMAO holy shit this is going in the rotation. Genuinely, thanks for adding to my list of funny insults
Your typical walk in. I got it.
do you mean to reply to a comment instead of the post? If yes, can you add a link to the comment for context?
General post to the group at large. Lot of people including OP, happy about what they perceive as rich people getting what’s coming to them.
“your walk-in closet”
Lol your privilege is showing, tuck it back in
Grow up.