There’s always some post in here saying for people to use Linux. I find an admonishment to be pretty hollow, so I’ll share my recent experience installing a Linux distribution rather than simply saying it’s something people should do.
I installed one of the many Debian variants. Getting the installation media is certainly going to be a challenge for casual users. Otherwise, it was easy. It walked through the steps. It was different from installing windows, but I felt it was no more difficult. I am well versed in this stuff, but I feel like nothing in the installation process would be a problem for a casual computer user.
It offered several desktops programs at the login screen. This could likely throw off a lot of people. However, if you just logged in and ignored that you might never even know there were different options. The default was KDE. Everything worked. Nothing needed to be tweaked. This is in starck contrast to Windows, where once you get past installation, you need to get rid of a ton of crap it throws at you. The Windows 10 start menu is an unbelievable collection of weird boxes and shit and the task bar is similarly full of junk. The KDE start menu is just a menu. The task bar has your tasks. There’s nothing to do.
I did try Cinnamon too. I prefer the simplicity. I don’t think casual users are going to care.
Overall, I think for casual users, it’s actually easier to set up and use than Windows. Getting installation media prepared is not something most people are going to readily do, but I think it’s the same with Windows. They have the advantage there of having manufacturors install it. Otherwise, whatever issues there have been installing Linux distributions in the past aren’t there now. Conversely, installing and especially the configuration after installation is much harder on Windows than it used to be. If you’re slightly tech savvy, give Linux a try.
You’re right to point out the difficulty of preparing installation media.
Also, for the average person, friction will probably happen during installation - possibly having to circumvent safe boot to install and run a new OS (knowing how to enter the bios, feeling comfortable playing around in the bios, knowing how to even disable safe boot once you’re there, not exposing your device to security vulnerabilities by having safe boot disabled), the need for an existing understanding of how partitions work and how the partitions are structured on your specific device in order to test the waters with a dual boot setup on a drive that has data/functionality you want to preserve. Needing to know the ‘what’ and ‘why’ of swap, /home, and /root partitions. These points all came up on a recent installation, and I’m sure they would scare some people off.
Installation will be easy if you have the time, motivation, existing knowledge and/or bandwidth for a learning curve. But not everybody has that.
And that’s just installation, to say nothing of the actual use of the desktop environment, which is not as intuitive as its often claimed to be.
I’m not convinced most somewhat tech savvy people are put off by the install of linux. As you describe it’s dead easy in most cases. I think most of their push back is getting their specific programs or peripherals to run. In their mind, Windows “just works” when they want to play a new game, use a specific business software that is required by their employer, or plug in a crafting peripheral like a cricut. That said, linux is an awesome alternative for regular folks that mostly use web based stuff in their daily lives.
What did you do with your file system? I haven’t tried to dual boot Linux yet but I think bothering with partitioning and file systems is keeping me from taking the plunge.
(BTW it reminds me of why I didn’t go to law school, I hated filling out the paperwork for even doing the LSAT and realized the whole job is that. Dealing with partitioning and file systems and shit seems miserable and it’s just the start.)
If you have the port and money for it, I’d recommend a separate drive for the second OS. Windows is kinda notorious for stomping over GRUB if you rely on partitions for your dual boot.
If you’re worried about installing to the wrong drive on accident, you can always physically disconnect the existing drive until install is complete, then plug it back in and set the boot order in the mobo config.
As other people have said, you have to be carful with dual booting on the same drive with Windows. It doesn’t play nice with others. To add on though, Linux can access your NTFS (or whatever) systems fine*. You can leave them as they are and access the same data on both systems, though Windows is not capable of reading most other filesystems.
*May require installing a package, but every distro I’ve tried could out of the box.
Yeah it is. Most computers come with windows pre-installed so most people never do this kind of thing.
And there’s also things people need to be careful of. Like wiping all out all of their cherished photos by formatting the entire drive. Considering that casual users probably shouldn’t attempt to do this. Not trying to gatekeep or anything, but there is potential for data loss for a user that doesn’t back up their data properly, which is common for casual users.
Not to mention changing BIOS settings to allow booting from external media. I’ve yet to see 2 machines that were the same in that regard, so good luck writing instructions that a casual user could follow.
It depends on who you’re referring to as a casual user. My mother for example would certainly have a hard time with it, then figuring out the key to bring up the boot menu (and being faced with a scary dialog that they’ve never seen), then selecting the right device, then likely being faced with GRUB which would also look scary to her, and by then she’d be overwhelmed before even getting to the install portion.
I really enjoy there being a natural filter through this process. I’d rather people who lack the willpower or cognitive capacity to complete an install be kept within the confines of Windows.
I no longer view gatekeeping necessarily as a bad thing. In fact, it can be sometimes be necessary to preserve communities.
I’ve also learned over the years that the only people who succeed in migrating to linux are those who both considerably desire to do so while also having a level of technical competency somewhere north of average. Anyone else is just being strung along by a “helpful” linux evangelist in their family or friends group, and will ultimately drop the solution at the first sign of trouble and frustration.
There’s always some post in here saying for people to use Linux. I find an admonishment to be pretty hollow, so I’ll share my recent experience installing a Linux distribution rather than simply saying it’s something people should do.
I installed one of the many Debian variants. Getting the installation media is certainly going to be a challenge for casual users. Otherwise, it was easy. It walked through the steps. It was different from installing windows, but I felt it was no more difficult. I am well versed in this stuff, but I feel like nothing in the installation process would be a problem for a casual computer user.
It offered several desktops programs at the login screen. This could likely throw off a lot of people. However, if you just logged in and ignored that you might never even know there were different options. The default was KDE. Everything worked. Nothing needed to be tweaked. This is in starck contrast to Windows, where once you get past installation, you need to get rid of a ton of crap it throws at you. The Windows 10 start menu is an unbelievable collection of weird boxes and shit and the task bar is similarly full of junk. The KDE start menu is just a menu. The task bar has your tasks. There’s nothing to do.
I did try Cinnamon too. I prefer the simplicity. I don’t think casual users are going to care.
Overall, I think for casual users, it’s actually easier to set up and use than Windows. Getting installation media prepared is not something most people are going to readily do, but I think it’s the same with Windows. They have the advantage there of having manufacturors install it. Otherwise, whatever issues there have been installing Linux distributions in the past aren’t there now. Conversely, installing and especially the configuration after installation is much harder on Windows than it used to be. If you’re slightly tech savvy, give Linux a try.
You’re right to point out the difficulty of preparing installation media.
Also, for the average person, friction will probably happen during installation - possibly having to circumvent safe boot to install and run a new OS (knowing how to enter the bios, feeling comfortable playing around in the bios, knowing how to even disable safe boot once you’re there, not exposing your device to security vulnerabilities by having safe boot disabled), the need for an existing understanding of how partitions work and how the partitions are structured on your specific device in order to test the waters with a dual boot setup on a drive that has data/functionality you want to preserve. Needing to know the ‘what’ and ‘why’ of swap, /home, and /root partitions. These points all came up on a recent installation, and I’m sure they would scare some people off.
Installation will be easy if you have the time, motivation, existing knowledge and/or bandwidth for a learning curve. But not everybody has that.
And that’s just installation, to say nothing of the actual use of the desktop environment, which is not as intuitive as its often claimed to be.
I’m not convinced most somewhat tech savvy people are put off by the install of linux. As you describe it’s dead easy in most cases. I think most of their push back is getting their specific programs or peripherals to run. In their mind, Windows “just works” when they want to play a new game, use a specific business software that is required by their employer, or plug in a crafting peripheral like a cricut. That said, linux is an awesome alternative for regular folks that mostly use web based stuff in their daily lives.
What did you do with your file system? I haven’t tried to dual boot Linux yet but I think bothering with partitioning and file systems is keeping me from taking the plunge.
(BTW it reminds me of why I didn’t go to law school, I hated filling out the paperwork for even doing the LSAT and realized the whole job is that. Dealing with partitioning and file systems and shit seems miserable and it’s just the start.)
If you have the port and money for it, I’d recommend a separate drive for the second OS. Windows is kinda notorious for stomping over GRUB if you rely on partitions for your dual boot.
If you’re worried about installing to the wrong drive on accident, you can always physically disconnect the existing drive until install is complete, then plug it back in and set the boot order in the mobo config.
As other people have said, you have to be carful with dual booting on the same drive with Windows. It doesn’t play nice with others. To add on though, Linux can access your NTFS (or whatever) systems fine*. You can leave them as they are and access the same data on both systems, though Windows is not capable of reading most other filesystems.
*May require installing a package, but every distro I’ve tried could out of the box.
wait what?? downloading rufus and putting the installation media on it is too much for casual users (by this i mean fresh-off-of-windows)???
Yeah it is. Most computers come with windows pre-installed so most people never do this kind of thing.
And there’s also things people need to be careful of. Like wiping all out all of their cherished photos by formatting the entire drive. Considering that casual users probably shouldn’t attempt to do this. Not trying to gatekeep or anything, but there is potential for data loss for a user that doesn’t back up their data properly, which is common for casual users.
Not to mention changing BIOS settings to allow booting from external media. I’ve yet to see 2 machines that were the same in that regard, so good luck writing instructions that a casual user could follow.
Yeah I just hold shift and ctrl and start mashing function keys until I figure it out LOL.
It depends on who you’re referring to as a casual user. My mother for example would certainly have a hard time with it, then figuring out the key to bring up the boot menu (and being faced with a scary dialog that they’ve never seen), then selecting the right device, then likely being faced with GRUB which would also look scary to her, and by then she’d be overwhelmed before even getting to the install portion.
I really enjoy there being a natural filter through this process. I’d rather people who lack the willpower or cognitive capacity to complete an install be kept within the confines of Windows.
Elitism and gatekeeping from a linux user? Nah, never, I must have misread
I no longer view gatekeeping necessarily as a bad thing. In fact, it can be sometimes be necessary to preserve communities.
I’ve also learned over the years that the only people who succeed in migrating to linux are those who both considerably desire to do so while also having a level of technical competency somewhere north of average. Anyone else is just being strung along by a “helpful” linux evangelist in their family or friends group, and will ultimately drop the solution at the first sign of trouble and frustration.
I can’t imagine wasting my time and energy caring about things that don’t affect me. Good luck with that buddy.