I can’t agree with you tbh. It depends on the distro. On Windows I can basically one-click install OpenMW and it Just Works™. I can’t even play it on my distro because for whatever reason it’s broken. I ended up having to flat out purge it and install the daily build to get it working. Maybe it works better on other distros, idk. Worked fine until my distro updated some months ago. When I was still running Lubuntu I had to build it from source to get it to work.
This is the nature of open source and decentralized platforms. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if anyone expects the mainstream to adopt it when ease of use has been the name of the game for the last 20 years then they’re mistaken. As good as Linux has gotten, there are still kinks that need worked out before the average user will adopt it. One step towards that is government adoption. This will almost certainly lay out a stable baseline standard that can be built off of for a more coherent experience. I can see Linux competing with Windows provided it comes up to par on UX.
Having an app store is easier than expecting people to download things from the internet, just because your distro fucked up doesn’t mean this isn’t generally a win for linux.
i work IT, software fails to install ALL THE TIME on windows for all kinds of reasons
You keep implying Windows has ease-of-use on its side. That is just blatantly not true. I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example, and that’s a pain in the ass. Windows is just a piece of shit that people stepped in so long ago they stopped smelling it. They don’t pay attention to how bad it is to work with because “that’s just the way it is.” The one benefit is the software mentioned above (with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine), though again most work with a VM if Wine isn’t enough. Support is an issue of getting users there though. If people keep assuming that what you’re saying is true they’ll believe you and not try it. If they switch the software developers will start targeting Linux.
Playing old games is also often really painful on Windows, and requires a lot of hacks. On Linux I’ve had a very good time with that honestly. Maybe I’ve just gotten lucky, but Wine with Proton has made the experience with old games pretty easy.
Sampling bias. The people you know are likely more technologically inclined than the average user. Really, effectively anyone who uses Linux is simply due to the nature of the thing. To people like you and me, the average user is a literal idiot. And that’s something we forget. The average user doesn’t ever have to finagle with registries and probably doesn’t even know they exist. Hell, they probably don’t even know how to change their default browser from Edge. And don’t get me wrong, Windows is a piece of shit. But it’s undeniable that its standardized protocols and coherent ecosystem make it easier for the average person. I do concede that this is due in part to software developers targeting Windows primarily, but I don’t see a world where Linux is used by the masses unless some distro sees adoption and standardization by some larger body.
As for old games, if I played Morrowind via Steam it would work fine but the reason I play OpenMW is because it modernizes the engine. 1080p isn’t even possible in vanilla. 100% improvement imo, but it causes me problems on occasion.
I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example
You’re experiencing more delusions. 99.9% of Windows users wouldn’t even know what that is.
(with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine)
Again you’re asking me to write out what is a list a mile long. I’m not doing that.
I will give you one example though. I went to download GrayJay yesterday. I got the file. I have no idea what to do with it. Because there are a dozen types of files for Linux and all of them have to be installed differently. I got a folder. I know from years of experience how to install .deb, .rpm, flatpak and appimages, this folder has 398457 files in it and none of them are those. That’s not even getting into how a lot of Linux software, you’re expected to know how to compile the fuckin thing yourself…
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
You know how to install programs on Mac? You click download on the .dmg, double click the downloaded file and it installs itself, every time.
It looks like GrayJay only has an android application, with a desktop one in testing. I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing. You aren’t supposed to be using it if you can’t compile it from source. Just run the android one in an emulator if you need it on desktop. That’s the same thing you’ll need to do on Windows.
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
Yeah… You have to go to their website, hope it’s the real one, download the .exe and install it. Then to update it you have to do the same thing. On Linux you just tell your package manager to install it and then you’re done forever. It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it. The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing
Weird, you don’t have to compile the Windows or Mac versions…? 🤷♂️
hope it’s the real one
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
From their FAQ: “Do you have a desktop version? A desktop version is actively in the works, and already in internal testing phases.”
It looks like you can download the pre-built applications for all of them though, including Linux. You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
I meant the website.
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
No they don’t… They tell you if there’s an update and then you have to do it.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
Mine doesn’t. I’m on Garuda. It just has an icon on the task bar.
Yes, I am aware. I did not argue that is isn’t for testing. I said you didn’t need to compile it for Mac or Windows, because it’s not expected of you to have a CS degree to install it.
You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
WTF is chmod? Execute what? How can you not see that this is a problem?
It is a problem. The fact Windows will just execute anything is an issue. That’s right. On Linux you need to tell your system to execute a file. That’s what chmod is for. (I think you may be able to do this with a right-click. I’m not sure. You just need to tell your system that a file is an executable and it’s allowed to do so.)
I can’t agree with you tbh. It depends on the distro. On Windows I can basically one-click install OpenMW and it Just Works™. I can’t even play it on my distro because for whatever reason it’s broken. I ended up having to flat out purge it and install the daily build to get it working. Maybe it works better on other distros, idk. Worked fine until my distro updated some months ago. When I was still running Lubuntu I had to build it from source to get it to work.
This is the nature of open source and decentralized platforms. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if anyone expects the mainstream to adopt it when ease of use has been the name of the game for the last 20 years then they’re mistaken. As good as Linux has gotten, there are still kinks that need worked out before the average user will adopt it. One step towards that is government adoption. This will almost certainly lay out a stable baseline standard that can be built off of for a more coherent experience. I can see Linux competing with Windows provided it comes up to par on UX.
Having an app store is easier than expecting people to download things from the internet, just because your distro fucked up doesn’t mean this isn’t generally a win for linux.
i work IT, software fails to install ALL THE TIME on windows for all kinds of reasons
…how exactly do you think the app store works?
Do you just not realize that Windows and Mac also have app stores?
I meant websites, obviously.
On windows, the app store is extremely lacking, mac, sure.
Glad we sorted that out.
You keep implying Windows has ease-of-use on its side. That is just blatantly not true. I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example, and that’s a pain in the ass. Windows is just a piece of shit that people stepped in so long ago they stopped smelling it. They don’t pay attention to how bad it is to work with because “that’s just the way it is.” The one benefit is the software mentioned above (with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine), though again most work with a VM if Wine isn’t enough. Support is an issue of getting users there though. If people keep assuming that what you’re saying is true they’ll believe you and not try it. If they switch the software developers will start targeting Linux.
Playing old games is also often really painful on Windows, and requires a lot of hacks. On Linux I’ve had a very good time with that honestly. Maybe I’ve just gotten lucky, but Wine with Proton has made the experience with old games pretty easy.
Sampling bias. The people you know are likely more technologically inclined than the average user. Really, effectively anyone who uses Linux is simply due to the nature of the thing. To people like you and me, the average user is a literal idiot. And that’s something we forget. The average user doesn’t ever have to finagle with registries and probably doesn’t even know they exist. Hell, they probably don’t even know how to change their default browser from Edge. And don’t get me wrong, Windows is a piece of shit. But it’s undeniable that its standardized protocols and coherent ecosystem make it easier for the average person. I do concede that this is due in part to software developers targeting Windows primarily, but I don’t see a world where Linux is used by the masses unless some distro sees adoption and standardization by some larger body.
As for old games, if I played Morrowind via Steam it would work fine but the reason I play OpenMW is because it modernizes the engine. 1080p isn’t even possible in vanilla. 100% improvement imo, but it causes me problems on occasion.
You’re experiencing more delusions. 99.9% of Windows users wouldn’t even know what that is.
Again you’re asking me to write out what is a list a mile long. I’m not doing that.
I will give you one example though. I went to download GrayJay yesterday. I got the file. I have no idea what to do with it. Because there are a dozen types of files for Linux and all of them have to be installed differently. I got a folder. I know from years of experience how to install .deb, .rpm, flatpak and appimages, this folder has 398457 files in it and none of them are those. That’s not even getting into how a lot of Linux software, you’re expected to know how to compile the fuckin thing yourself…
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
You know how to install programs on Mac? You click download on the .dmg, double click the downloaded file and it installs itself, every time.
It looks like GrayJay only has an android application, with a desktop one in testing. I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing. You aren’t supposed to be using it if you can’t compile it from source. Just run the android one in an emulator if you need it on desktop. That’s the same thing you’ll need to do on Windows.
Yeah… You have to go to their website, hope it’s the real one, download the .exe and install it. Then to update it you have to do the same thing. On Linux you just tell your package manager to install it and then you’re done forever. It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it. The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
Weird, you don’t have to compile the Windows or Mac versions…? 🤷♂️
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
From their FAQ: “Do you have a desktop version? A desktop version is actively in the works, and already in internal testing phases.”
It looks like you can download the pre-built applications for all of them though, including Linux. You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
I meant the website.
No they don’t… They tell you if there’s an update and then you have to do it.
Mine doesn’t. I’m on Garuda. It just has an icon on the task bar.
Yes, I am aware. I did not argue that is isn’t for testing. I said you didn’t need to compile it for Mac or Windows, because it’s not expected of you to have a CS degree to install it.
WTF is chmod? Execute what? How can you not see that this is a problem?
It is a problem. The fact Windows will just execute anything is an issue. That’s right. On Linux you need to tell your system to execute a file. That’s what chmod is for. (I think you may be able to do this with a right-click. I’m not sure. You just need to tell your system that a file is an executable and it’s allowed to do so.)
Well now you’re just blatantly lying. Windows doesn’t execute anything without you asking it to. The difference is that it works when you do.