Privacy concerns are a very popular and valid talking point on Lemmy, so I would like to gather your thoughts and opinions on this. (Apologies if it’s already been discussed!)
Would you support this? Would it work or even be viable? (If it could somehow overcome the rabid resistance from these big companies). What are your thoughts?
Personally, I’m getting more and more agitated at the state of this late stage global capitalism, where companies have the gall to ask you to pay or subscribe to their products, while they already make money from you for selling your data. It’s been an issue for a long time now, but seems to really be ramping up.
I don’t care about royalties. They should pay a gigantic tax for selling it tho
yeah honestly the fraction of a cent I’d get negotiated wouldn’t make a dent in my life. I’d much rather we as a collective hold companies accountable for selling off our data. Politicians too; they’re all trying squeeze us for everything they can, and we consent by being apathetic.
I’d prefer it if they simply weren’t allowed to collect it in the first place.
And I don’t think it would be viable, because no fucking way am I giving these parasites any banking information so they could pay me a pittance of what they get. They’d fucking sell that too!
It should be a requirement that you can see your own profile at any time, see everything they know about you, be able to edit it (including clearing it, and not with a billion checkboxes either), and lock it to prevent further modification and addition by themselves.
Well, partial good news for you, friend! (Assuming you’re in the US)
California’s new CPRA law went into effect at the start of the year. As part of that law, CA residents can request to see their data, be deleted or edit it. Since it’s hard to validate whether someone is actually a resident or not, most places just allow everyone to do those things now.
But there are some big caveats. One is that getting access to your data can be complicated. There’s a risk of, e.g. an evil-ex requesting your info in order to stalk you, so some places will just confirm or deny the info you send. “Do you have my name? How about this email address?”, etc, but you can’t say "Gimme everything for ".
You can ask for all your personal data to be deleted. But the law says to delete everything… Which includes the fact that you made such a request, so the next time data about you arrives, the company has no record to indicate they should not collect it.
It’s a start.
Disagree. Privacy should be the default.
Collecting information should be legal only in so far as it supports the customer’s use of a product/service. E.g. It’s nice if my doctor can keep a medical history on file, or my mechanic can do the same for my car.
Selling/disclosing information to third parties should be illegal.
Agree
Absolutely. I think the difficulties in ensuring the data owner gets paid properly highlight the fact that gathering this data needs to be approved by the data owner and can’t just be done willy nilly. Data is a valuable resource, although in the most part intangible. It’s this intangibility that has given data hearders the impression its up for grabs. The whole system needs strick rules to protect people’s data wealth and not to mention privacy.
How much do you think your data is actually worth? Let’s take Google for example, their ad revenue in 2022 was ~$224B and they have 4.3B monthly active users. That’s only $52 per user, but if you take into account their operating expenses of $208B that drops down to $3.7 per user.
But that’s not all, they don’t make their revenue by “selling your data”, that’s a common misconception. They make revenue by selling targeted advertisements on their systems, and targeted advertising is only useful if you actually click the ads and purchase the products.
Now the correlation between your interests might be useful in aggregate, but for a single person this correlation data rounds down to a big fat zero, and since Lemmy users pride themselves in ad blockers and avoiding online advertisements I’m going to say that the value you personally add to Google’s revenue is a big fat zero.
So should Google cut you a check for ~$0 per year? Honestly this conversation is a waste of time.
It’s a great idea if you want to pay a subscription fee for every website you visit.
Selling data is what keeps free sites free. If you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to use those apps and services.
If you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to use those apps and services.
I go out of my way to avoid apps that harvest data, and as a result my life is much more difficult. It’s a lot of work to stay on top of it, and there is still a lot of data that gets harvested anyways. It’s impossible for the average user to do what you’re telling us to do.
It’s not impossible at all, it just requires work, like you said.
Consumer: I like your product. Can I use it?
Company: Sure thing! It’s free but we’re going to take your data and sell it.
Consumer: Okay!
. . . Consumer: Hey, you’re selling that data I told you you could sell as long as I can use your product for free! You should give me commission.Me: Don’t use things that sell your data. Start by deleting the apps from your phone in favor of the web version. Make sure to decline allowing websites and services to track your usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a start.
What should be even more concerning at the moment is the Mozilla report that came out reporting that every car company is now extracting more of your personal information than TikTok or Facebook. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/According to Mozilla research, popular global brands — including BMW, Ford, Toyota, Tesla, Kia, and Subaru — can collect deeply personal data such as sexual activity, immigration status, race, facial expressions, weight, health and genetic information, and where you drive. Researchers found data is being gathered by sensors, microphones, cameras, and the phones and devices drivers connect to their cars, as well as by car apps, company websites, dealerships, and vehicle telematics. Brands can then share or sell this data to third parties. Car brands can also take much of this data and use it to develop inferences about a driver’s intelligence, abilities, characteristics, preferences, and more.
You act as if it is actually feasible or reasonable to choose not to uae these services, when it, in fact, would be a severe handicap in day-to-day life
Do you have an example?
To start with, an ISP. Most of them collect user data. Many services, such as banking, are unavailable or restricted over VPN (assuming you find one that doesn’t also collect your data).
Next, a smartphone. You’re limited to iOS or android, unless you have the option to root your device (which is a hassle), and both are basically loaded with spyware.
Your debit/credit card. Many providers will collect and monetize data regarding your purchases.
Your car (if newer than about 2010) or your public transit provider.
Need I go on? Try living without just one of these things.
I’m talking about deleting the FREE Facebook app from your phone and you’re talking about PAID ISPs. You’re not wrong but you’ve changed the conversation to ignore my point…
Company: Sure thing! It’s free but we’re going to take your data and sell it.
Consumer: Okay!
Start by deleting the apps from your phone in favor of the web version. Make sure to decline allowing websites and services to track your usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a start.How is deleting FREE apps from your phone and declining to allow websites to track you not a good start and how would this handicap your day-to-day life? My point is that if you’re suing something for free, you are the product. This needs to be at the forefront of people’s minds and they need to be made aware of the ramifications of choosing to use these FREE services.
Granted, I should have been more clear and said “Don’t use FREE things that sell your data”.
Yeah - there’s a lot to be concerned about. Hell yes there’s a huge concern about a PAID service also harvesting your data.
Let’s START by deleting apps off our phones because this is what we currently have the most control over and they’re the one’s harvesting the most kinds of data to sell to brokers.How is deleting FREE apps from your phone and declining to allow websites to track you not a good start and how would this handicap your day-to-day life?
Okay, for an exact example. I have a work email via microsoft 365. Because I choose to not have the outlook app installed on any of my devices I do not get notified when I have unread mail.
Thus, I need to go through the abysmal web app login several times per day (because it automatically logs me out), and click through nagging pop ups imploring me to install the app in order to confirm whether I have any pending mail.
What privacy concerns are there with the Outlook app?
I don’t know, I didn’t read the entire 174 page privacy statement. In this case, I just assume that they exist and that I do not want their app installed on my phone, especially considering the permissions it wants.
Generally, I personally, disagree. Usually companies do not get your data from the air, they provide people service and often for free in exchange. This is a model which made internet available for masses.
What I agree with - a transparency and control, more or less like GDPR suggests (not like it is usually implemented, though).
Yeah I feel like OP is suggested a world where you pay $5 a month to use Facebook, but you get the premium version for free if you sign off your rights. Maybe not a whole lot would change, except a higher awareness of the business model.
OP wants companies pay them. Regarding pay or watch ad (this is a usual way your data is sold): youtube, spotify and many others offer this option already now.
