So I need some realtalk by Lemmie’s resident stoners and possibly medical professionals on the benefits and risks/harms of vaping cannabis refill things on the respiratory system (using a rechargeable vape pen/battery thingy at the lowest heat setting).
Give it to me straight docs, whats up and how long do I have to live if I use it infrequently but potentially daily in small amounts?
I have been using cartridges lately for my once per night before bed sess. It’s extremely convenient and affordable.
Here’s the thing. When I use dry herb vaping, I tend to have the same amount every night and it’s fine. I don’t want to get baked, I just want to sleep.
When I have a cartridge, I end up taking more drags from it. This leads to consuming now which increases your tolerance. It’s just so easy to have a little more. When I use dry herb reloading the vape is just enough effort that I think “I’m good” and wander off to bed. Plus you have ABV to make edibles.
Edit - no noticeable effect on breathing or whatever that differs from dry herb vaping.
This right here folks, dry herb vaping (aka pulling really hot air through plant material.) In Canada they even certify portable dry vapes as medical devices https://www.vapormed.com/en-ca/mighty-medic . There are $100 options that work almost as well.
Love ur username! Ya, I’m moderating quite well actually. I def can’t big boy smoke shit and I can’t even really tolerate a water bong etc. vapint is the only thing that “works” but I wanna make sure Im not fucking up my lungs and predisposing myself to any COPD bullshit
Edit1: say hi to yamotherskeys for me
Hi, addict here. I’ve smoked dry flower with a vaporizer daily for years and quit entirely about three months ago. In the past i almost exclusively smoked using a bong daily. Quitting was much easier coming from the vaporizer, i coughed up almost no gunk, just some phlegm. When i attempted quitting coming from the bong, the withdrawal was intense plus i coughed up Satan’s entire asshole. If you’re going to smoke, a vaporizer with a dry product is going to be the ‘healthier’ option for sure.
Real talk? Vape carts are garbage. Overpriced and weak, just smoke bud or rip a dab. The only times I use carts are when i have to sneakily bring it somewhere.
Health wise, the smoke from wild fires probably caused more damage to my lungs than a year of weed.
Can’t, asthma gets too exacerbated by it. Also, in most serious things I am a teenage girl (not really but I could definitely credibly be accused of being, lets say “a bit vanilla” lol
If you want to vape, get a Volcano and go easy. Much better than any cartridge.
If you have asthma don’t fuck around with inhalants. I’m a paramedic and I’ve seen too many people lately with asthma not responding to their daily inhaler (advair,breo,etc…) plus their nebulizer at home with Albuterol and ipratropium. Last shift I had two people who were dying from asthma exacerbations at home, one I managed to reverse with what I have and she left the ER 8 hours later and the other I prevented an intubation and he still went to the ICU. There’s too many irritants in the air for you to add more to yourself. Stick to edibles.
Ya, shit. Dammit. There goes $100 :( O well, my health is obv way more important. Is there a way I can infuse things with the vape without necessarily breathing it in per se…?
dont let folks peer pressure you thats how you get fucked up with a real drug.
weed is ur drug free trial theres no strings attached and hardly any danger. you will be fine if youre getting your materials from trusted sources. (i smoked/vaped street for years and was fine but i dont recommend).
the danger that exists is 99% fake and propagated stigma because america wants to enslave black people so badly
and if you think im being cynical read about the stipulations of the 13th amendment, the drug war, neighborhood segregation, etc
alcohol and tobacco lobbyists paid to demonize and criminalize marijauana to promote their business even though alcohol and tobacco are HORRIBLE for your body. so make your own opinions on this but weed has a bad wrap for quite literally no reason.
Agreed that alcohol and tobacco are way worse, how they are legal and marijuana isn’t is laughable. It probably has a lot to do with race as you mentioned. I will say that marijuana is not nearly as researched as alcohol and tobacco so while I tend to agree that it is mostly harmless if used in moderation, we simply don’t have the data from long running studies to back that up.
This is anecdotal, so keep that in mind when making your decision. I have had 2 friends develop lung issues from smoking the oil in vape pens. Several years ago one of my friends switched to flower only and he has since recovered. My other friend who still smokes the oil has developed worse lung problems. I think that our lungs have evolved to be able to clear particulates out of them with relative ease. Oil, however, has never been something that we breathe in. The oil vapor enters the lungs and then reliquifies. This liquid is thick amd sticky and goes into the fine tube of your lungs. The normal process your lungs use to clear debris is not very effective at clearing this sticky oil and can take much longer.
I refuse carts anymore but have never felt the same level of worry with dry herb vaping.
I would recommend strongly against inhaling any oil containing product. Your lungs do not have much surfactant and they cannot deal with it.
Doesn’t uhh weed contain oil?
Yeah, I was making a general statement. The big problem is THC is only oil/alcohol soluble, so if you’re using a vape product you’re not only inhaling the natural oil in the plant, you’re inhaling what they used to dissolve that oil out of the plant. Compare that to nicotine, which in its freebase form dissolves in water. There’s a significant difference between the dangers in weed vapes and nicotine vapes due to that reason, they’re essentially different products with different risks. All of that said, you could reduce the amount of oil by putting a surfactant and creating an emulsion for your vape, but I don’t really know what manufacturers are doing, because I don’t smoke weed.
edit: https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Cannabis-Oil-for-Vape-Pens
This is an example of what I’m talking about. They’re recommending using terpes(an alcohol that is insoluble with water) instead of glycerol(an alcohol that acts as a surfactant). They’re also giving a guide on how you extract ALL the oils in the plant. If you’re not careful, you’re going to end up with more oil than you want and they’ll form big globs in your lungs and not make it to your blood stream. This leads to inflammation and lipoid pneumonia. The fix for that is a very unpleasant lavage, or washing, of your lungs.Ohh yeah I 100% agree then, the wikihow method is a bit of the diy at home crackhead way, but usually its extracting via butane or co2 in professional production, which both are volatile in oxygen and so if professionally handled can be entirely safe.
The issue arrises when manufactures try to add things for flavour and viscosity, which there’s little regulation for and can cause problems.
But inhaling vaporuized oil specifically isn’t too harmful, even if it solidifies in your lungs out lungs are fairly well designed to remove foreign contaminants, its another question whether they were designed to do this daily tho
edit: that’s cool about nic tho, I’m only a stoner so I know weed best, but it’d be so easy to extract (tho I wonder if polar substances tend to be less volatile with the intermolecular forced holding things together)
Inhalants in general are not good for you. Vaping introduces water, smoking introduces ash/smoke. There are no benefits to vaping or smoking. Unless you are being prescribed it by a doctor. I mean drugs are not good for you. But if you are going to, your body can usually deal with it well with moderation. Edibles are better than inhalants.
Nothing you inhale is good for you, but vaping is significantly better than smoking. It’s not even a comparison.
If you are going to inhale something, make it a vape
I haven’t seen any studies on that for cannabis. For tobacco I agree that is absolutely true.
Any inhaled particulate matter from combustion is bad for you. Tobacco products add extra chemicals that make them worse, but just smoke from a regular fire can cause health problems. Cannabis is no exception, despite how much we want the opposite to be true.
I’ll edit this post to add a study when I get to my desk
Edit: Here’s a pdf
These answers are so unhelpful Imo. It just states the obvious and doesn’t answer OPs question. Everyone knows drugs or inhaling stuff is not the healthy optimum. OP is just looking for the least harmful way.
Least harmful way for cannabis is probably edibles
Which is what I said, lol :) agreed
I did. Edibles in moderation. They wanted it straight, and that’s what I said.
I really wish there was like an asthma puffer delivery system where it is aerosolized rather than heated and burned. I dunno if thats possible but it would be amazing to simply have a puffer, like how there’s inhaled versions of narcotic painkillers like fentanyl with legitimate medical indications and usage.
What you’re describing does exist. Google “THC inhaler” and you’ll see a few examples of it.
I don’t use an inhaler like that, but I do use a dry herb vaporiser. You put your ground bud into it (like packing a pipe or bong), and it heats the flower to somewhere around 170-200 degrees Celsius. Since the temp is so low, the flower doesn’t burn it at all, so no smoke or ash is produced, only vapor. It’s so much better for you than combustion, relatively speaking, that my country’s rules for medical cannabis prescriptions say that prescribed flower should never be smoked, only vaporised.
Is that or how is that distinct conceptually from vaping?
Tbh its not if you only cape pure stuff, but the extraction process, and even more so the additives companies legally can add after definitely are.
A lot takes advice from nic gaping, which is pretty much just making a chemical soup solely to making smoking quicker and simpler.
Stick to good extraction methods, and a concentrate vape instead of mixed then you should be good (CO2 instead of butane, diamonds, distillates are all good)
I don’t know what you are talking about. I don’t know of any legitimate inhaled drugs that aren’t for treating the lungs.
Are you maybe thinking of narcan? It can treat an overdose of fentanyl.
Methoxyflurane is still widely and legally admistered as a vaporised drug. All hail the green whistle.
Don’t forget amyl nitrate
It is making a comeback, but it was removed in the 90s by many countries. So I have never heard of it in my country. :)
No, I believe there’s literally an aerosolized fentanyl I believe as a marketed drug. I may also be thinking of when Russia dealt with a hostage situation with aerosolized fentanyl or a more potent relative. But I was certain theres a marketed version for sick folks
Every anaesthsiologist will tell you that there a few inhaled drugs, such as sevoflurane, isoflurane and desflurane. We use them every day. They are vaporized and inhaled.
Those are not treating anything, are not meant for habitual use, and aren’t available for individuals.
Sevoflurane can be used as add-on treatment for Asthma in Life-threatening cases. But I know that‘s beside the point and I agree that there is no vaporized treatment for individuals.
Have you considered vaping flower instead of oil?
I can’t speak as to much from personal experience. However, I do know of an extended family member that had a negative respiratory reaction to a weed vape he got online. He survived, but ended up in a coma for a while and suffered serious brain damage from lack of oxygen. He was a talented athlete, and now he will be lucky to walk and feed himself again.
Don’t know if it was tainted product, an allergic reaction, or what, but… I would make sure you can trust the safety of the product itself, ease into use checking to see if you might have a reaction, and maybe be prepared with an epipen or something in case you have a negative allergic reaction.
Just to be clear, I’m not one of those fear mongering “weed kills” types. I’m not a smoker myself, but very much support legalization and responsible recreational use. But I do not trust all of the sketchy companies producing vape products in general, let alone products that are illegal in much of the world.
Holy shit, yeah, I heard there were lottsa sketch places and products fudging the THC numbers with Vitamin E like how they contaminated baby milk in China with bullshit “protein”. I really should get the brand names and read some reviews but I doubt that would be sold in the upscale weed store (it really is, like an Apple weed store pree much)
fudging the THC numbers with Vitamin E
It was a specific product (“Honey Cut”, a brand of vitamin E acetate) that was sold to black-market cartridge makers by a company based in Los Angeles. It was used as a diluent (“cut”) that is thick enough to fool users into thinking they’re getting pure cannabis extract. It doesn’t affect measurement of THC concentration; unlike lab-tested legal extracts, black-marketeers just lie.
Motherfuckers
Seems to me that edibles are safer than vaping or smoking.
in theory its edibles, dry herb vape, concentrate vape, smoking, ghetto offline pen vape (in terms of safety)
You are absolutely correct
A friend and I have developed some popcorn lung from cartridge vaping too much, but it was unusually heavy usage at an entire gram in a week. Most people can make a gram last more than a month and never encounter issues.
Heating element seems to have something to do with it. Most of those cartridges are cotton heating elements, but occasionally ceramic ones do exist. Ceramic or a quartz dish on a proper dab rig have never given me trouble.
More likely to be lipid pneumonia than popcorn lung. That’s a very specific flavoring that causes that.
Ooh, I don’t like that. Yikes!
unusually heavy usage at an entire gram in a week
Rookie numbers
Just do your research, know the difference between CBD, delta 8/9 THC, HHC, etc and i would recommend filling up your own cartridge if you want to be sure you know what is going into it, most places have lab tests so you know theres nothing bad in it. I’ve been filling an NRG-S with ceramic coils and carts with HHC from highlyconcentr8ed, never had any issues after several months of vaping it as much as possible.
Wikipedia has this article on vaping-associated lung injury.
The outbreak was caused by vitamin E acetate used as “cut” in black-market cartridges. Legal regulated cartridges do not contain any “cut” at all.
Yes and no; for reasons that are beyond me the door has been left somewhat open on that one:
“Vitamin-E acetate (VEA) is found in counterfeit cartridges and bronchoalveolar lavage fluid of EVALI patients. Other reports implicated the presence of aromatic/volatile hydrocarbons and oils consisting of medium-chain triglycerides (MCT oil), including terpenes and mineral oil in tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) containing counterfeit vaping products. These compounds are involved in oxidative stress and inflammatory responses in the lung. Here, we provide the perspectives on the recent case reports on EVALI, etiology, and discuss pulmonary toxicity as well as the mechanisms underlying EVALI susceptibility and lung pathophysiology.”
But the cutting agent certainly seems to have been pretty bad.
Thanks for posting this.
You wouldn’t happen to have a quick summary would you? I just need to clean and run some errands but I wanna fill myself in as quickly as possible if it really is not tenable?
Skip inhalants altogether. Long term lung damage isn’t worth it, even if it’s not as carcinogenic as normal smoking.
Just go with edibles.
I figured as much. Shit
I’ve stipped using dab pens in favor of a one hitter and making my own edibles. I live in a medical state with a recreational state less only an hour away so i’m not worried about my carts being sketchy, but they make it way too easy to get way too baked.
i smoke carts literally all day everyday (i buy bulk disty and fill myself) and aside from psychological addiction theres no actual physical harm. marijuana is effectively harmless especially if used as you describe. feel free to read soem studies but marijuana has at worst caused respiratory issues at doses like 100000mg that lasted a few hours then theyre fine with no damage.
decade long daily users stop for a month and lung health stays/goes back to baseline.
dont let the propaganda scare you but also dont let your impulses control you theres good and bad parts to everything you have to figure it out tho.
before anyone says dont smoke everyday its bad. i know more about my body than you people ever will. and i know its bad but im not in a good place. judge my circumstance not my actions im working on it.
Its not so much the “drug” or THC/cannabinoids that concern me so much, its the issue of ingesting it through the modality of a (heated) oil to the delicate lungs that slightly gives me pause. And the long-term potentially compounding nature of that. Also have mild mild mild asthma so I have to be a bit more responsible about it cuz I hate breathing issues.
your body is super able to heal itself (except ur heart read below 1) idk much about asthma but marijauana used to be used as an asthma treatment wayy long ago because it’s a natural bronchodilator.
you first should figure out what damages your lungs about it. distillate sublimates at a low temp (more below too if you care 2) so you shouldn’t worry too much about heat. next is acetates. if you heat an acetate from a street cart you could inhale ketene gas which is toxic but thats been hardly proven outside of extreme high temps with thcO.
you will not have long term issues though and if you don’t use everyday ur already better than a lot of folks.
1 the heart does not heal naturally and i mention this coz some drugs (not pot) are super cardiotoxic (its cocaine) and prolonged use will cause an early heart attack. and thats where actors and comedians go.
2 distillate vapes lower temp because its decarbed unlike wax that needs a higher temp. simply put marijuana isnt active normally and needs some kine of chemical change such as combustion (smoking) to make it active. or decarboxylation (flower in the oven) and thats how folks make edibles.
im a big anxious stoner but im also generally interested in toxicology though im probably not much older than you.
TLDR dont be too scared but once you try it don’t be too careless lol both ways are bad (except being careful is much less damaging than careless)
