I do. And as a smoker, I also support attempts to eliminate tobacco. It’s a shit drug, only good at making the craving stop for a bit, and it’s awful for your health and general quality of life.
The thing is, if you smoke outdoors, you are violating people’s right to live in an clean environment and breathe fresh air. I don’t care if you fuck yourself up in your own house, but the moment smokers smoke outside of their own homes, they are messing with the liberties of all other citizens.
I hate smoking, but where do we stop?
Gamers who sit too long in a chair are an issue for the medical system, too.
People who do no sports.
People who do not sleep enough.
Eating habits…
I mean that’s the classic slippery slope fallacy you’re employing here. The answer is, sometimes it’s a more clear cut situation and other times it isn’t.
But just because the next rung down your logical ladder is more of a gray area than smoking does not mean that smoking is now also as much of a gray area. That’s not how this works.
This is the same style of argument people make when debating against gay marriage. Well if gay people can get married does that mean people can marry dogs now? Why not? Where do we draw the line?
But this isn’t clear cut; I tend to hear that smokers are a net plus for a country’s finances because of the taxes on cigarettes and due to dying younger, before costlier chronic disease treatments and social care are required.
So yes, you should be asking where to draw the line.
Slippery slope arguments are usually fallacious, but I don’t think this one is. A slippery slope argument is valid when thing A actually does enable thing B. Banning something because it’s unhealthy does, in fact, enable further bans on other things by normalizing the notion that something being enticing but unhealthy is a sufficient reason to ban it.
Just look at all the things that have been criminalized at some point on the principle that they’re dangerous to the people who use them, or just that they’re vaguely bad for you. Cannabis, pornography, sex toys, gambling, even raw milk! And look at the specific things we know are next because they’re already being taxed in some jurisdictions. Tobacco is actually a great example because it’s going through the transition right now from being heavily taxed to being banned outright.
Cool so when do we start banning junk food? This isn’t a slippery slope argument. I’m using the same logic you’re using against tobacco, except sugar kills more people than tobacco does.
Depends statistically they die earlier and of relatively quick diseases. Combined with a life time of paying steep taxes to ingest poison, usually they tend to be a net positive for the state (coldly put).
Not enough. I support discouraging use by greatly increasing taxes and insurance.
And yes, as someone who sometimes enjoys alcohol, that goes for all vice taxes. They need to be raised regularly with inflation or they need to be a percentage
That’s because of gradual shifts in culture and attitudes, not due to prohibition.
Prohibition has failed to effectively “ban” any drug, and often tends to encourage their usage and harm efforts to alleviate addiction.
Tobacco smoking is also declining in many nations in response to improved public health awareness and again cultural shifts. If those trends continue it could all but fade away naturally. Tobacco prohibition is arguably not necessary and could even become counterproductive.
Raising the legal drinking age has definitely helped. While there’s still all too many teenagers drinking, my experience through my teens is that it’s a lit fewer than when I was a kid and harder to get.
— funny story - as an obviously older adult I got carded a couple years ago at a baseball game. They had a zero tolerance policy so I could not get a beer, despite going to multiple stands. Finally, partly out of amusement, I asked a newly legal intern less than half my age to buy beer for me
I’m not so sure. I’m in the UK, many parts of Europe have more liberal laws and attitudes towards alcohol than us, but it’s the British teens (and the British in general) infamously known for binge drinking.
And this is the kind of shit that happens when the right are put in power. Fuck people yay money.
Disgusting.
Do you support the legalisation of cannabis or other drugs?
I do. And as a smoker, I also support attempts to eliminate tobacco. It’s a shit drug, only good at making the craving stop for a bit, and it’s awful for your health and general quality of life.
All it does is extend the craving really.
I get a choice what I can and can’t do with my body? Sign me up I guess.
The thing is, if you smoke outdoors, you are violating people’s right to live in an clean environment and breathe fresh air. I don’t care if you fuck yourself up in your own house, but the moment smokers smoke outside of their own homes, they are messing with the liberties of all other citizens.
The ban doesn’t apply to people’s homes and what they do there?
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You must really hate woodstoves and fire pits. Wait till you hear about internal combustion engines!
All of those things serve a purpose. What purpose does smoking tobacco have?
And those are banned in many places, except for engines, but there are changes in that department, too
Edit: I was wrong about the ban
Citation needed.
Good point, I found out to be wrong: https://emoffgrid.com/woodstove-ban/
They do try to minimize the air pollution by allowing only specific stoves and fuel, but there is no ban. Sorry for misinformation
Smokers are a drain on the medical system
I hate smoking, but where do we stop? Gamers who sit too long in a chair are an issue for the medical system, too. People who do no sports. People who do not sleep enough. Eating habits…
I mean that’s the classic slippery slope fallacy you’re employing here. The answer is, sometimes it’s a more clear cut situation and other times it isn’t.
But just because the next rung down your logical ladder is more of a gray area than smoking does not mean that smoking is now also as much of a gray area. That’s not how this works.
This is the same style of argument people make when debating against gay marriage. Well if gay people can get married does that mean people can marry dogs now? Why not? Where do we draw the line?
But this isn’t clear cut; I tend to hear that smokers are a net plus for a country’s finances because of the taxes on cigarettes and due to dying younger, before costlier chronic disease treatments and social care are required.
So yes, you should be asking where to draw the line.
Slippery slope arguments are usually fallacious, but I don’t think this one is. A slippery slope argument is valid when thing A actually does enable thing B. Banning something because it’s unhealthy does, in fact, enable further bans on other things by normalizing the notion that something being enticing but unhealthy is a sufficient reason to ban it.
Just look at all the things that have been criminalized at some point on the principle that they’re dangerous to the people who use them, or just that they’re vaguely bad for you. Cannabis, pornography, sex toys, gambling, even raw milk! And look at the specific things we know are next because they’re already being taxed in some jurisdictions. Tobacco is actually a great example because it’s going through the transition right now from being heavily taxed to being banned outright.
Cool so when do we start banning junk food? This isn’t a slippery slope argument. I’m using the same logic you’re using against tobacco, except sugar kills more people than tobacco does.
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Depends statistically they die earlier and of relatively quick diseases. Combined with a life time of paying steep taxes to ingest poison, usually they tend to be a net positive for the state (coldly put).
Smokers pay more in taxes and insurance premiums.
Not enough. I support discouraging use by greatly increasing taxes and insurance.
And yes, as someone who sometimes enjoys alcohol, that goes for all vice taxes. They need to be raised regularly with inflation or they need to be a percentage
Bruh, they’re trying to make sure the next generation who never smoke, don’t start smoking.
The same way they ensured our generation didn’t have to deal with asbestos or lead pipes.
Definitely worked with drugs and alcohol.
? Alcohol consumption has been dropping consistently with each new generation…
That’s because of gradual shifts in culture and attitudes, not due to prohibition.
Prohibition has failed to effectively “ban” any drug, and often tends to encourage their usage and harm efforts to alleviate addiction.
Tobacco smoking is also declining in many nations in response to improved public health awareness and again cultural shifts. If those trends continue it could all but fade away naturally. Tobacco prohibition is arguably not necessary and could even become counterproductive.
You call prohibition, I call education and restriction
Raising the legal drinking age has definitely helped. While there’s still all too many teenagers drinking, my experience through my teens is that it’s a lit fewer than when I was a kid and harder to get.
— funny story - as an obviously older adult I got carded a couple years ago at a baseball game. They had a zero tolerance policy so I could not get a beer, despite going to multiple stands. Finally, partly out of amusement, I asked a newly legal intern less than half my age to buy beer for me
I’m not so sure. I’m in the UK, many parts of Europe have more liberal laws and attitudes towards alcohol than us, but it’s the British teens (and the British in general) infamously known for binge drinking.
Lol except women right? Oh and trans people.
Barking up the wrong tree with that one 🤣
It’s amazing how you’ve imagined an entire political perspective from one comment. My goodness you have an imagination!
Women and trans can’t do what they want with their body?