Especially in the Middle East and a large proportion of Africa?
EDIT:
What I mean by “religious toxicity” is being very religious to the point of hating the non-religious, and secularism.
EDIT 2:
I’m not surprised that religions like Christianity and Islam still exist, I’m surprised that there are still so many super religious Christians and (especially) Muslims out there. If I’m going to be honest, it concerns me.
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It’s human nature. Anything with a power structure is bound to breed toxicity when you put humans in it. That’s why you have extremists in all religions, not just the ones in the middle east and Africa.
This. It’s less to do with religion, and everything to do with human nature.
From Ancient Egyptian Priests and Medieval Christianity, to Donald Trump and Boris Johnson - when in times of uncertainty, people will turn to anyone claiming to have all the answers.
“Us Vs Them” is the oldest tactic when it comes to gaining and consolidating power.
Making yourself the chosen people and others the enemy will always be popular.
It would be easy to jump to religion as the cause of a lot of human suffering, and it is, but this ignores humans I aye ability to organize into disparate groups that inevitably hate.
It would take work to throw off these animalistic vestiges. Work we aren’t quite fully capable of yet.
religion is one of the tools of hate, but a new tool will emerge among those that need one.
I think you have the most accurate answer. The “othering” behavior can be seen in essentially any group of people.
Plus, if you read any of the texts of these religions, I have never come across instructions to shun others. I think people have a surface level of belief and then sophomorically apply it to be “more righteous.” They’re really missing the forest for the trees if they elevate themselves above others.
Not the Middle East, but I remember Hinduism having a caste system that does actually rank people, but from information I got, people were generally on the same page about it.
Southpark did it with warring factions of atheism.
Especially in the Middle East and a large proportion of Africa?
Are you aware of Mike Johnson and the people who enable him?
No. Could you clarify?
the “religious toxicity” is an extension of tribalism. the culture hasnt really evolved much & it’s super easy for religion to sink its teeth in
Now, don’t take this the wrong way, but this totally feels like a leading question, looking to pick an argument.
Not saying that’s what it is, but you haven’t given any reasoning, context or data to suggest why you think the situation should be any different. Over what time period were you expecting things to change? Why were you expecting things to be different by now?
It’s just shocking to me how many people still strongly believe religions like Christianity and Islam when it has been more than a thousand years now.
I can’t remember the theories name, but I came across a suggestion from a historian (or sociologist? Or something…) that if you have to estimate how long a cultural feature will last, your best guess is “roughly as long as its existed for”.
So the pyramids at Giza are over 4000 years old. If we lack any specific knowledge of reasons ( predicting the stone erosion, or knowing that bombing is likely in the area soon) then all we can know is that they have lasted a long time, so probably could last a good bit longer. And if we guess random ages, they will average out to a middling number (just like if you roll a lot of d6s you’ll average out 3.5). The could be destroyed next year, but that’s an extreme outlier, and they could last 40,000 years but that’s also an extreme. So something around the 2000 - 6000 mark would probably be a good bet.
Similarly, Facebook has been around for 20 years. If the company collapsed next year, that’d be possible but unlikely. They could last into the next century, but again, most companies don’t. So guessing in the 10-30 years would be safe.
Obviously, it’s just a huge “rule of thumb” but I found it interesting. So instead of being surprised that Christianity is still here, twenty years past its second millenium, it’s more realistic to assume that you’re seeing it somewhere near its midpoint, rather than at an extreme. So we’re likely to have Christians for another few thousand years!
Tl:Dr if something has lasted a thousand years, it’s likely to last a good time longer.
Tl:Dr if something has lasted a thousand years, it’s likely to last a good time longer.
But will that something stay the same “size” in, let’s say, a thousand years?
Any particular thing will change, and if you look more specifically at the factors and data around it, you can make a more accurate guess about that change. But that’s pretty difficult for big, unpredictable things that we don’t have a lot of examples of (like “big world religions”).
Current data is that Christianity has been on massive growth spurt since the 1800s. There were 2.4 billion in 2020 and that is estimated to go up to 3.3 billion by 2050. So if you’re looking at growth rates, forecasts etc, Christianity is only going to get bigger.
Obviously, a lot of that growth is due to general population growth (although growth rate of Christianity was higher than the global growth rate) And if you make some pretty big assumptions about world development, ‘progress’ and waning religious belief you could believe that Christianity will boom and then shrink. But there’s not a lot of evidence for that currently. And that’s why I brought up that general guideline - we don’t have any reason to believe that Christianity is going to disappear anytime soon, and we don’t have any evidence that it’ll be here in 10,000 years. So, if I was an immortal onlooker, and I had to make a bet, I’d guess it’d be around for another few thousand years.
Maybe it would help if you explained more about why you think it’s surprising these religions are still around after thousands of years? Religions and cultural items like that don’t generally get ‘superceded’ by new inventions (as happens with technology), instead they general adapt and change to the needs of the culture that uses them. Christianity is the 2000s is massively different from even 500 years ago, let alone 1500 years ago. And in the 3000s it’s more likely that Christianity will be around, but significantly changed, than that it has faded away.
What’s right and wrong had changed a lot since most religious text were written, for example:
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
From leviticus 20:13 (aka the Bible)
Doesn’t really sound like it belongs in the most holy book of the biggest religion on earth*. But I guess that precisely what’s in those holy texts doesn’t really matter but what matters is more the overall picture and the fact that religion unites people. My personal guess is that the religions practiced today will last as long as our civilization, even if their holy texts get really outdated
* Disclaimer: this is my opinion and I’m a non-religious teenager from Sweden. I’m aware that most people probably don’t find it as weird as I do even if they don’t want to kill homosexuals
to suggest why you think the situation should be any different.
Generally as science advances we have answers to how the universe works. I can understand religion a thousand years ago, but today? Not really. And I understand the fanatics even less when they oppose scientific fact.
The desperate desire to cling to anything that presents answers the individual feels comfortable with - a pretty lie is easier to swallow than the hard truth - coupled with the borderline-crippling fear of the unknown. Many religions - especially ones in the west - preach tolerance but rarely practice it. Mix that with power-hungry individuals and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.
A divine warrant for action.
Everything else follows.
Many people like being told what to think. It’s easier. Many “Christians” don’t actually read the New Testament for example. And those in power like telling people what to think. It makes them easier to control. That’s why you see critical thinking being removed from schools and books being banned.
People often want to feel like they belong to something. It’s even more fun when you can turn your nose up at others who don’t belong to the same clique and feel superior (even when in reality you are not).
People also like schemes where they can blame their problems on other people (for whatever scapegoated reason their religious leaders come up with).
Religion is built on a collective hatred towards everyone not in the collective. The fear of being cast out of that collective generates the toxicity you are referring to.
Religion presents the last perfect opportunity for conservatives to weaponize the government against shit they don’t like. Women, children, education, science, it’s all up when your invisible friends ‘wrote the constitution of this christian nation’ /vomits in mouth/
I think a lot of people can’t figure out the world, so they rely on religion to tell them what’s good, what’s bad, who’s good, who’s bad. The rely on it to “understand” the world.
In my experience many, many people really have to simplify the world. They can’t see shades of gray or nuance, they need black and white.
Can you define what you mean by religious toxicity?
In what way specifically?
In that they still value their religions (mainly Christianity and Islam) to the point where they really hate the non-religious, and secularism.
Love your username by the way.
I mean I think that the reasons are just as varied as people themselves. I think a lot of times it’s tradition in the sense that their parents believed it, there parent’s parents believed in it. So, it’s easy to just do what everyone else does.
Then you have, especially in Islamic countries a situation where their religion is everything. From the government, to the judicial system, to the education system, and of course the religion. It’s a way to control the masses. I think it was Hitler that said “He alone that owns the youth gains the future”. Indoctrinate your people early and reinforce it every step of the way.
Then you also have a situation where Muslims pray multiple times a day. Once again this just reinforces the indoctrination, but it also serves as a constant reminder that if you “sin” bad things will happen.
All of these things and more help to cement a tight grip on a population. There is a YouTube channel hosted by an ex-Muslim that I find interesting. The dude is way smarter than I. The channel is called “Apostate Aladdin”. He does a great job of explaining things in easy to digest ways.
Think it has been a few hundred years since Christianity has been outwardly expressing hate and acting on it. If course there will be individuals that are extreme. Mostly it is edge lords that like to include it in these overall statements.
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