They’re both focused on profit. The only reason you see the other one as scary is because it’s owned by the scary scary Chinese. Red scare all over again.
Case in point. Vine literally can’t survive and so shouldn’t TikTok. Unless of course it’s getting propped up by a government with endless funds and not focused on profits.
You say “red scare” as if China isn’t a hostile nation state to the US. Go look at western company penetration in China if you want. Are you calling it “western scare” when China blocks yet another western company? I didn’t think so.
Facebook is not intentionally doing it. It was a byproduct of capitalism. While TikTok doesn’t care about profits and only wants to control our government and people.
You know though that the United States have “taken down” governments before? Americans do not have any right to feel superior on this issue in the slightest way
According to SAI sources, the following exchange is between a 19-year-old Mark Zuckerberg and a friend shortly after Mark launched The Facebook in his dorm room:
Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask.
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
[Redacted Friend’s Name]: What? How’d you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don’t know why.
Zuck: They “trust me”
Zuck: Dumb fucks.
Brutal.
Could Mark have been completely joking? Sure. But the exchange does reveal that Facebook’s aggressive attitude toward privacy may have begun early on.
It’s not the same. China wants to fuck up the American youth. That’s why their version of tiktok is so different from ours. But you already knew that I’m sure
Nah, I don’t use tiktok, Chinese or otherwise so I wouldn’t know the difference. But you’re missing the point.
USA organisations abuse social media to spy on and influence citizens.
Chinese organisations abuse social media to spy on and influence citizens.
And yet, you claim one is inheritly worse than the other or should be preferered. To me, they are equally bad. If anything, the USA manipulation is worse - they can use that knowledge more easily and to greater effect than an attacker on the other side of the world.
Unironically yes, at least the US government is something we can openly criticize and attempt to change while living within its borders. Try criticizing the Chinese government from within China, let me know how that works out for you. I’ll take homegrown American spyware any day.
I doubt it, parents will just move them to YouTube, Instagram, or some other platform. The TikTok ban is intended to limit misinformation by the CCP, and that doesn’t really matter for this age of kids.
The more important thing to me is building habits. I care less about how much they’re watching vs how they’re spending their time generally.
We have a rule where our kids need to read to be able to watch/play games, and we cap at 2hr/day. If they read 1hr, they can watch/play for 30min. My kids seem to have a pretty good mix of reading, watching/playing, and playing outside w/ friends, so I think it works.
Yea. We do something similar. It’s an electronic allowance. If you use it it’s done for the day. I change it for rainy days and vacations if we are traveling in the car or whatever. But it’s easy to set up with Google family. And then you can see what they are doing. Not to be snoopy. Just to teach them the right way to protect themselves online. I don’t want them to turn 18 and be completely lost.
I give my kids 30 min “free” on Saturdays, which gets doubled if they spend it in a game with a sibling. For trips, I make my kids all do the same thing, so either watch the same show, listen to the same audiobook, etc.
I personally don’t digitally track what my kids do at all, I instead rely on trust and keeping devices in a public space. I tell them what’s acceptable, and occasionally hang out with them while they’re doing whatever. As they follow the rules, I give them more autonomy (e.g. my oldest may get their own PC soon-ish), but if they break the rules, they lose access. The only parental controls I use is for my 4yo, because she keeps getting into my Steam Deck and Switch w/o asking, but my other kids know the passcode on the Switch (not my Steam Deck, that’s mine).
It’s a bit bumpy, but I’m hopeful that having rules but no actual walls teaches them to learn to self-regulate and will help them in the long-run. It worked for me as a kid.
Probably plenty. Tik tok is just the biggest owned by a foreign government that also is showing pretty immediate extreme negative effects on children’s attention spans and learning capabilities.
But people are still gonna whine because they’re 25 year olds who need to watch 80 videos of unboxing shoes in 4 minutes . That’s really the only pro tik tok argument there is.
I’m guessing you’ve never been on TikTok. It’s a pretty good news source and information disseminator. Your algorithm feeds you what you pick so if you linger on posts from physical therapists and psychologists about child development, that’s what you learn about. If you linger on political posts highlighting our local and federal government’s corruption, you get that.
I’m all for banning it (and all social media) for children, but if you think TikTok is all trash TV, you’ve been successfully propagandized.
I use TikTok routinely. I actually spend time on Chinese parts of TikTok, because I know a little Chinese. I’ve seen content that the CCP would be very much opposed to - including discussions of the Tank Man from Tiananmen Square and homosexuality in Chinese history.
TikTok has censorship certainly, but it’s more targeted towards the Gaza conflict.
Your experience is different from other experience. That’s the main issue. They are and can target specific people in specific groups and in specific regions. You seeing this content just means you’re not important enough for them to target.
As can/do Facebook and every other social media platform. But I find it hard to take this idea that TikTok is an arm of the CCP seriously when I routinely discuss Ughyur Muslims and Tiananmen square with folks, and see depictions of Chairman Mao as Pooh Bear.
The more shady shit is the shop and how every third video is an unlabeled ad. TikTok wants to make money first and foremost. I don’t think TikTok is some force for good in the world, but what they are doing is no different from what Meta and Google are doing.
This ban can’t come soon enough. Fuck the CCP.
“In my household, the only addictive spyware we use is made in the USA!!!”
Edit: everyone below me is proving my point exactly.
People love to repeat this, but US companies aren’t coming from a place of hostile intent like china’s special brand of tik tok for the states.
I’m not so sure about that, they seem pretty hostile to consumers and employees.
They’re both focused on profit. The only reason you see the other one as scary is because it’s owned by the scary scary Chinese. Red scare all over again.
No tiktok is not focused on profit. It literally has one of the worst/non existent monetization systems.
Yup, vine ripoff with some tweaks and the same monetization issue
Case in point. Vine literally can’t survive and so shouldn’t TikTok. Unless of course it’s getting propped up by a government with endless funds and not focused on profits.
Why is Chinese tiktok different than that in the states then?
Because the USA strong armed them into giving their platform handling to Oracle Corp, a top tier US govt contractor.
But since pro-palestine cries can’t be silenced on TikTok as easily as Zio media, taking control of the platform is no longer enough
No, it’s literally a different app in China.
It’s the same thing, the international one was called TikTok and the US version is handled by Oracle
It’s called douyin or something idk in China but it’s the same shit
You say “red scare” as if China isn’t a hostile nation state to the US. Go look at western company penetration in China if you want. Are you calling it “western scare” when China blocks yet another western company? I didn’t think so.
So Facebook has the best interest of the people at heart?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/facebooks-dangerous-experiment-teen-girls/620767/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/10/05/heres-how-instagram-harms-young-women-according-to-research/?sh=50ff6082255a
https://www.counterextremism.com/press/extremist-content-online-extreme-right-and-neo-nazi-content-located-tiktok-instagram-and
Facebook is not intentionally doing it. It was a byproduct of capitalism. While TikTok doesn’t care about profits and only wants to control our government and people.
Most 10 years ago they were already manipulating people on purpose
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/30/facebook-emotion-study-breached-ethical-guidelines-researchers-say
Yes, to maximize ad spend, not to take down a government for another government’s benefit.
You know though that the United States have “taken down” governments before? Americans do not have any right to feel superior on this issue in the slightest way
Does it matter what the US did or didn’t do? The US government should always put Americans first.
Should we not ban TikTok because ourfounding fathers had slaves too?
To do both… But keep your head in the sand as long as you want
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/17/the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-changed-the-world-but-it-didnt-change-facebook
They literally sold the data for money. Not trying to topple a government.
Hmm, here’s what Zuckerberg said when he launched Facebook:
They may not be trying to control elections (they certainly have their fingers in that pie too), but they’re still hostile to users.
Why would it matter whether or not it’s intentional, if the end effect is the same?
It’s not the same. China wants to fuck up the American youth. That’s why their version of tiktok is so different from ours. But you already knew that I’m sure
Nah, I don’t use tiktok, Chinese or otherwise so I wouldn’t know the difference. But you’re missing the point.
And yet, you claim one is inheritly worse than the other or should be preferered. To me, they are equally bad. If anything, the USA manipulation is worse - they can use that knowledge more easily and to greater effect than an attacker on the other side of the world.
Are the American companies doing it in pursuit of destabilizing the United States population for the betterment of the CCP and its interests?
Is the Chinese company doing it in pursuit of destabilizing the United States population for the betterment of the CCP and its interests?
China does not have a version of tiktok. You are repeating bullshit lies
Douyin begs to differ.
Unironically yes, at least the US government is something we can openly criticize and attempt to change while living within its borders. Try criticizing the Chinese government from within China, let me know how that works out for you. I’ll take homegrown American spyware any day.
Blaming tiktok for bad parental choices?
I’m not saying it’s a good parental choice. But the ban can help the kids.
I doubt it, parents will just move them to YouTube, Instagram, or some other platform. The TikTok ban is intended to limit misinformation by the CCP, and that doesn’t really matter for this age of kids.
I’m a parent. YouTube is watched but you can see what they are watching.
The more important thing to me is building habits. I care less about how much they’re watching vs how they’re spending their time generally.
We have a rule where our kids need to read to be able to watch/play games, and we cap at 2hr/day. If they read 1hr, they can watch/play for 30min. My kids seem to have a pretty good mix of reading, watching/playing, and playing outside w/ friends, so I think it works.
Yea. We do something similar. It’s an electronic allowance. If you use it it’s done for the day. I change it for rainy days and vacations if we are traveling in the car or whatever. But it’s easy to set up with Google family. And then you can see what they are doing. Not to be snoopy. Just to teach them the right way to protect themselves online. I don’t want them to turn 18 and be completely lost.
I give my kids 30 min “free” on Saturdays, which gets doubled if they spend it in a game with a sibling. For trips, I make my kids all do the same thing, so either watch the same show, listen to the same audiobook, etc.
I personally don’t digitally track what my kids do at all, I instead rely on trust and keeping devices in a public space. I tell them what’s acceptable, and occasionally hang out with them while they’re doing whatever. As they follow the rules, I give them more autonomy (e.g. my oldest may get their own PC soon-ish), but if they break the rules, they lose access. The only parental controls I use is for my 4yo, because she keeps getting into my Steam Deck and Switch w/o asking, but my other kids know the passcode on the Switch (not my Steam Deck, that’s mine).
It’s a bit bumpy, but I’m hopeful that having rules but no actual walls teaches them to learn to self-regulate and will help them in the long-run. It worked for me as a kid.
No blaming the CCP on psyops on Americans.
Ah yes, that will solve the problem
Wait, is there another psyops software the CCP has deployed in the US?
Probably plenty. Tik tok is just the biggest owned by a foreign government that also is showing pretty immediate extreme negative effects on children’s attention spans and learning capabilities.
But people are still gonna whine because they’re 25 year olds who need to watch 80 videos of unboxing shoes in 4 minutes . That’s really the only pro tik tok argument there is.
It sets a pretty chilling precedent that non-American competition can be forced to sell to Americans for (insert arbitrary reason here).
I am in favor of TikTok at least becoming restricted to adults only if not outright banned, just warning about the consequences of doing it this way.
It’s owned by the CCP who is currently trying to undermine our election. It tried to do it in Taiwan where I currently live.
Not that this may not be true, but the USA undermines it’s own foundation of democracy
While the US government is not perfect, it still is OUR own government. The CCP is a literal adversary.
So it’s ok when Republicans undermine democracy… As long as they are not Chinese, got it
I’m guessing you’ve never been on TikTok. It’s a pretty good news source and information disseminator. Your algorithm feeds you what you pick so if you linger on posts from physical therapists and psychologists about child development, that’s what you learn about. If you linger on political posts highlighting our local and federal government’s corruption, you get that.
I’m all for banning it (and all social media) for children, but if you think TikTok is all trash TV, you’ve been successfully propagandized.
I use TikTok routinely. I actually spend time on Chinese parts of TikTok, because I know a little Chinese. I’ve seen content that the CCP would be very much opposed to - including discussions of the Tank Man from Tiananmen Square and homosexuality in Chinese history.
TikTok has censorship certainly, but it’s more targeted towards the Gaza conflict.
Your experience is different from other experience. That’s the main issue. They are and can target specific people in specific groups and in specific regions. You seeing this content just means you’re not important enough for them to target.
As can/do Facebook and every other social media platform. But I find it hard to take this idea that TikTok is an arm of the CCP seriously when I routinely discuss Ughyur Muslims and Tiananmen square with folks, and see depictions of Chairman Mao as Pooh Bear.
The more shady shit is the shop and how every third video is an unlabeled ad. TikTok wants to make money first and foremost. I don’t think TikTok is some force for good in the world, but what they are doing is no different from what Meta and Google are doing.
Tiktok has one of the worse/non existent monetization programs. Its clearly not important to them how bad it is.
My extended family in Taiwan would routinely see fake news on Tiktok during the Taiwan elections.
That’s the thing. You don’t know. Nobody knows except the CCP. That’s the problem.
Only Western manipulation please!
It’s not in American businesses best interest overthrow a government. Can’t say the same for the CCP tho. Fuck the CCP.