• juicy@lemmy.today
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      2 months ago

      If Israel had responded proportionately to Oct 7, the world would have continued to ignore their cruel apartheid.

        • dlatch@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Not when reasonable effort to warn civilians is: we’re going to bomb you, and if you run we’ll bomb you too.

          • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Actually they send texts, call phones, and fire warning shots. The Qatari media you gorge yourself on has covered it zero times.

            Are you saying they did not warn people before moving into Rafah?

            That’s delusional.

            • dlatch@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              That’s not what I am denying, read my comment again. What I am saying is that the warnings are just for show, because if they follow the warnings and flee, the IDF kills them while they are on the run

              • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                98% of Gaza says that’s not true.

                You’re conflating a few isolated stories from the initial days of the war during the evacuation of northern Gaza when they said “go south toward general safety,” not “go south and your safety is guaranteed.”

                At that time, 99.94% of the civilian population evacuated without harm.

                At any rate “don’t stand above tunnels and stay the fuck away from any members of Hamas or die” would have been very clear to me.

    • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Palestinians’ tactic of “existing and deserving rights” is paying off, yeah.

      Human shields are kind of useless against an army with no morals ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        If they want more rights that begins with following International law on any occasions. Rejecting terrorism. Putting your soldiers in uniform. Freeing hostages. Not targeting innocent people every single day with indiscriminate rocket attacks. Do you know anything about the people you’re talking about or are you just ignoring it all because you’re sad about the consequences of their own actions? Nobody made Hamas build tunnels under every single school and hospital, nobody made Hamas turn their airport and water ports into instrumentalities of international terrorism. That’s what the people chose. Hamas is (was?) wildly popular.

        • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          If they want more rights that begins with following International law on any occasions. Rejecting terrorism. Putting your soldiers in uniform. Freeing hostages. Not targeting innocent people every single day with indiscriminate rocket attacks.

          Apart from the fact that they do have uniforms for soldiers (except for during that little hospital “operation” some months back), you see that Israel is guilty of all of this too, right?

          Eg being held in “administrative detention” without charge is being held hostage, harming or threatening innocent civilians so they put pressure on their government is terrorism. Killing AI-identified “targets” while they’re at home with their families because it’s easier is targeting innocent people every day. And withholding the necessities of life from civilians on purpose is against international law. Nice uniforms though yeah.

          Should we take away Israelis’ rights by your logic? Or should we not punish innocents for the actions of people who claim to speak for them?

          Basic rights are not conditional. Not sure how I can explain that to you if you don’t understand that already. Jesus christ.

            • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Like you totally ignored all points of fact raised by me and didn’t even know that Israel detains Palestinians without charge all the time outside of active war?

              I’ll tell you why I didn’t fight you on these points: the topic of conversation is Palestinian statehood. NOT Hamas. What you are doing is classic hasbara bullshit, if in doubt and people start talking about human rights for Palestinians, shift the conversation to Hamas. You think or at least imply that the actions of a few can detract from the need for basic rights for every single human being. As I said, if that was the case then Israelis lose them too.

              And guess what? Hamas are terrorists and I agree they are shit. Now if you could face up to the various despicable crimes of Israel we might actually get somewhere here.

              • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Listen I can totally face up to the war crimes. There have been many. The side that actually punishes war crimes is redeemable. The side that rewards war crimes is not.

                I understand that in Israel there is a political movement that fosters a culture of wiping things under the rug or maybe pardoning war criminals like Trump did and would do again in America. But every dead kid in Gaza rests squarely at the feet of Hamas. Seems like it’s about 3% of the population that is so hardcore for Hamas that they are ready to die for the cause with their loved ones in tow.

                • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Listen I can totally face up to the war crimes. There have been many.

                  Thank you. This is very bad and I’m sure you can see that not all have been punished, in fact I think the WCK attack is one of the only ones recently that have?

                  But Israel is still allowed at the UN. They should be in the UN despite all of the (IMO) horrendous things that the country is doing and has done. Since Hamas would not be the representatives of Palestine at the UN (so complaining about them is not relevant), why should Palestine not have full UN membership? Why do they not deserve a proper seat at the table?

                  It would be like saying Israel doesn’t deserve membership because settlers are terrorists and the IDF and the current government supports them. I don’t understand how you can apply the logic to Hamas and Palestine but not there?

                  If you answer nothing else, please answer this: do you think that the state of Palestine has the right to exist?

                  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Sure, in the West Bank. Gaza is forfeit. It’s a collapsed state, lawless, unincorporated territory, irredenta, free to whoever can establish order.

                    Even from just a physical standpoint, the very foundation of Gaza’s cities and towns were turned to Swiss cheese by Hamas. Nothing is stable. Gaza has zero capability or capacity to rebuild itself and literally nobody else cares enough about Gaza to do it other than Israel. Qatar only sends money if Hamas is fielding soldiers to kill Jews, the West only sends money if Hamas tricks enough human shields into being “martyred.”