Firefox on Debian stable is so old that websites yell at you to upgrade to a newer browser. And last time I tried installing Debian testing (or was it debian unstable?), the installer shat itself trying to make the bootloader. After I got it to boot, apt refused to work because of a missing symlink to busybox. Why on earth do they even need busybox if the base install already comes with full gnu coreutils? I remember Debian as the distro that Just Wroks™, when did it all go so wrong? Is anyone else here having similar issues, or am I doing something wrong?
My bank used to complain that my browser was out of date. I wrote an email to customer service explaining to them that:
A) debian’s “out of date” browser actually includes all up to date security patches. B) simply reading the browser agent isnt really security. I had simply been spoofing my browser agent to get around their silly browser “security” policy
They removed the browser check 2 weeks later. Not sure if it was because of me
The hero we need rn tbh
You are literally describing the idea of Debian. Yes, stable is old, but that is the whole purpose. You get (mostly) security updates only for a few years. No big updates, no surprises. Great for stuff like company PCs, servers, and other systems you want to just work™ with minimal admin work.
And testing is, well, for testing. Ironing out bugs and preparing the next stable. Although what you describes sounds more like unstable, the one where they explicitly say that they will break stuff to try out other stuff.
So, everything works as intended and advertised here. If you want a different approach to stability, I guess you will have to use a different distro, sorry.
I guess when you last tried it, it was at a time when a new stable came out, so testing was more or less equal to stable.
About the firefox: It ships Firefox ESR these days, meaning you get an older, less often updated tested firefox (with security updates, of course). Again, this is the whole point. Less updates, less admin work, more time to find and fix bugs. Remember the whole Quantum add-on mess, for example?
As others have said, you can install other versions of firefox (like the “normal” one) via flatpak, snap… nowadays. The same goes for other software, where you would need the newest and shiniest version sooner. I’m using debian on my work/uni laptop and a bunch of servers, and it works pretty well for me.
This is why Debian is my server of choice, and my work desktop of choice.
OP, There are some flavors of Debian out there that are more rapid release, like LMDE, Siduction, Sparky, even Kali (though I wouldn’t recommend Kali as a primary desktop personally). Some based on Sid, some based on Testing.
The last paragraph is vital. Grab a flatpak of any software you need to be more up to date. Flatpaks running on Debian are amazing. Current software running on a stable base.
OP when they try Debian and it’s exactly what it advertises itself as:
Ehm… im using debian stable, no website is telling me to update Firefox (I’m on deb 10, 11 and 12 in different PCs).
Deb 12, my home computer, is on unstable and running smoothly.
Debian isn’t “just works” but “it’s a freaking rock” + “open source hardcore philosophy”.
Maybe I got lucky?
Debian is as great as it’s ever been.
Debian stable and flatpaks, I don’t see all the fuss
Why does the installer still explode sometimes when I use it on my computers. I use it on my mother’s computer or our movie server and it works fine.
Maybe it just eats shit when it sees a btrfs partition or something. Nothing against Debian but I tried to install Debian testing weekly and it just refused to install on my system 76 laptop. After flashing arch on my USB drive to wipe the disk I just said fuck it and installed arch on my laptop again. I haven’t had any issues with arch since I’ve installed it on my desktop five years ago. If arch blows up on my laptop I’ll try Debian again.
Debian’s Firefox is Firefox ESR, or Extended Support Release. It’s behind the bleeding edge, but gets security updates.
If you want the bleeding edge Firefox, you can add Mozilla’s own APT repository and install it. Doesn’t even conflict with Debian (
firefox-esrvsfirefox, it even uses a separate user profile by default). Instructions are on the Firefox download page somewhere.Also, Flatpak
Debian is working as intended. You are wanting to use Ubuntu or Mint if you want more up to date packages.
If the user really wants a new browser, Flatpak is always an option.
They can just use Flatpak as it will be the newest outside of Arch. Alternatively they could run Distrobox with something like Fedora.
I stopped using flatpak when I found out both I had to update outside of the package manager. Also using flatpak gave me some issues with my sound card, so I just run the .deb. To each their own though, which is why I love Linux.
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Installing outside packages is generally not a good idea. You can use Distrobox with a upstream distro like Fedora or you can use Debian Back ports.
Had forgotten about backports. Need to get that set back up. Thank you for the reminder.
These days I care a lot less that a package is outdated than I do it being unstable personally. If security concerns are getting patched and it is still doing what I want it to do, I couldn’t care less about UI elements getting moved around just to make some PM happy.
Debian Stable ± Flatpak gets best of both worlds
Ever considered LMDE? Best of both worlds if you ask me.
Someone after my own heart… Debian for my servers, lmde for my laptop, the way it was meant to be.
I’ve been on Debian Testing for my own desktops for about 15 years now. Sometimes as a Frankendebian mixing in SID/unstable. Sometimes mainly unstable, but mostly just Testing.
It rarely breaks, but when it does, it’s a learning opportunity. Stable for servers and other people’s desktops. Maybe with backports. Flatpacks if this no other option.
You don’t get 100% solid and 100% new. Ever. With anything.
A someone who worked in OS security, I beg you dont use flatpaks.
As someone who works, flatpak’s solve a bunch of problems, freeing me up to continue working.
Security issues are just a class of issue; no more or less important than other issues
As I said, “if this no other option”. And to be honest, that was once, for a few weeks before the new KiCad hit Debian repos. And only because hardware team wouldn’t wait to switch, so to open stuff, I needed it too.
Debian testing is complelty okay. If you want to have the most up to date security use apt to grab sid security updates. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
I use debian headless as a server never had any issues but then again pretty much any linux system is gonna be a decent server since everything is containerised now.
Debian was always like this.
