Probably get hate for this around here, but it would be pants-on-head retarded for a political candidate to propose a major policy shift 3-weeks before a national election.
The major-policy shift: Not supporting an apartheid state that’s killing thousands of innocent civilians.
don’t you see?? we have to continue our policy of giving unlimited material support to The Baby Chipper 9000, the electorino is at stake!!
It’d be genius, if anything. Soon enough that people will know it and vote for her (the majority of Democrats support conditioning Israeli aid), too late for AIPAC’d propaganda machine to push the election towards Trump.
Lots of people said that about switching candidates just a few months before the election but they pulled that off fine. Abandoning a pro-genocide stance seems like a low bar in that regard.
Not really. Only Americans are so dense as to require several months to absorb something like that.
When is Trump going to break with it?
When the election is over, what are centrists going to do when they can’t pretend that anyone who doesn’t support genocide is a trumper?
I know that the hold that Israel (and the military industrial complex) has on both major political parties is money, Money, MONEY. But there has got to be a breaking point. I thought the breaking point would be the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent children, but alas.
I mean, I will still vote for Harris, because I’m not stupid. I know the alternative is far worse. But I’d rather not have innocent blood on my hands after I fill out that ballot.
According to some, we all have innocent blood on our hands just by being American. ;)
If you (or anyone else) will never change your vote about it, why would they adjust their position?
You’ve given them no downside to continuing to support genocide other than the weight of thousands of innocent dead on their consciences. It should be fairly obvious how much that affects them.
Unfortunately, there is a downside to allowing Trump to win. It’s the trolly problem and yes I will help pull the lever that kills people to keep even more people from dying.
They will never negotiate with you, even on genocide, if you vote for them 24/7. Where is the red line?
It took Ronald Reagan one phone call to get them to stop bombing Lebanon.
Margaret Thatcher put a 10-year long arms embargo on them in the 80s.
Modern democrats are worse than Republicans from the 70s.
This can be shown with Biden’s draconian crime bill.
his full involvement in the “war on terror”.
Kamala ignoring the Supreme Court’s decision on releasing nonviolent prisoners after overcrowding, as they were being used for slave labor.
The Marginal tax rate being lower TODAY than it was after Reagan passed his tax cuts.
They will never move to be more progressive if progressives still vote for them.
I’m gonna assume your argument is is good faith. You’re absolutely correct about all of it. It fucking sucks. But the other side is the the same if not even worse. The reality is that right now the choice is between Harris and Trump. One of those two options will be leading the US next year. Not voting for Harris means Trump will be the leader.
If you want to convince people to stop voting for Harris you need to argue why Trump leading the US next year is a better outcome for Palestine. I haven’t been able to find a reason.
The argument is that continuing to reward genocidal behavior will never result in the party going left to get your vote. You’re demonstrating that they can literally missile strike babies and you’ll still vote for them. They don’t need to do anything to cater to you at all, but hey maybe they’ll throw a bone to your racist uncle and maybe he’ll vote for them instead of the ghoul the GOP runs 4 years from now.
Why ever give anything to the left when “look at the other side” always gets you to fall in line? You’ve completely taken yourself off the board, politically.
Not everything is about Donald fucking Trump.
Since when?
However the American presidential election and the consequences of it’s outcome certainly is in large part about Donald fucking Trump.
Oh shit, I thought he was running for president or something
If you (or anyone else)
Voters are a spectrum. Some number of people in OhStepYellingAtMe’s rough demographic either started out less engaged or have a more visceral reaction and won’t vote. A reliable Democratic vote being demotivated means an unreliable vote may already be lost. Not threatening to withhold your individual vote doesn’t mean comments like this aren’t a warning sign.
A warning sign the Harris campaign has continued to ignore and done nothing to try to win back.
If they think they can win without people who won’t vote for genocide, best of luck to them, but they clearly don’t want my vote, so I see no reason why I should give it to them.
people who won’t vote for genocide,
Would you prefer to vote for the candidate who has been calling for a cease fire, or the one that has bent over for Netanyahu in the past and fully plans to do it again?
Because those are the only 2 options available.
I won’t be voting for either of the two parties’ candidates as long as they remain pro-genocide.
If they want my vote they’re more than welcome to come out with a strong stance against genocide.
Pretty low bar. If neither candidate is willing to meet it I can only assume they do not want my vote.
If they don’t want my vote they either don’t think they need it or they’re more committed to genocide than winning the election.
It’s their call.
Uh… Both of them are option 2, though.
You wanna go to prison for that wrong-think. Cause that is what the other candidate is going to do. As well as provide EVEN MORE support to Israel.
Both parties are currently fighting each other over who can say they support Israel more right now. They’re both falling over each other to do more genocide. I’m not voting for a candidate that supports genocide. I’m especially not voting for a candidate who thinks doubling down on doing genocide is going to get them more votes.
Bear in mind that I agree with you entirely.
I fear Trump.
Now that there’s reporting that the Biden admin explicitly okayed the aid worker strikes (which is a war crime) I’m not sure that’s true. I honestly don’t know which side is more evil at this point. At least when W killed a million Iraqis it wasn’t EXPLICITLY a genocide for lebensraum. Genocide Joe is probably the worst president of my lifetime, and I’ve seen some GEMS. Same way I promised during Iraq I would NEVER vote GOP because they are EVIL, I have now sworn off voting DNC, because they are also EVIL and I don’t believe in accepting “the lesser of two evils” especially when the “lesser” evil are purveyors of genocide and a level of war crimes we haven’t seen since Nixon was funding the Cambodian ethno-communists.
How bad would Trump have to be for you to vote for Harris, then?
He’d need to genocide 200k or whatever the real death count is people, burning children alive, while institutionalizing rape, torture, and the use of starvation as a weapon of war. And murder several US citizens. And aid workers. And UN peacekeepers.
They are both evil.
I don’t believe in accepting “the lesser of two evils”
I’ve been seeing this argument alot this electing cycle. Can you provide an example of a politician that has done committed or supported an action that could be considered “evil”?
Are you PRO genocide? This seems like an insane question.
I know that the hold that Israel (and the military industrial complex) has on both major political parties is money, Money, MONEY.
The Israeli lobby is the American lobby. Israel is useful to US’ state and capitalist domination of the region and the US backs it to the hilt. It is not just that there are moneyed PACs, though there are. It is also that the entire state imperial apparatus recognizes that Israel is a tool against pan-Arabism, that it is important for maintaining the petrodollar, that it helps suppress Iran in its sovereign development. And US business interests are closely tied to those of Israel, so Israel’s loss is also their loss (and thanks to the resistance, they are feeling those losses right now!).
But there has got to be a breaking point.
There is no inherent moral breaking point. The US and its proxies will commit genocide unimpinged without dedicated efforts against them.
The American people are miseducated and racist, they cannot oppose this simply because it is wrong, they must first overcome the barriers of their miseducation and their chauvinism. They must understand what has been done to Palestine and they must consider Palestinians to be fellow people deserving of just as much as themselves and their neighbors. This is an effort that requires dedicated work and organization in left organizations, commitment to work over years and years.
The greatest forces of resistance are everywhere else. They are the forces of the al-Aqsa flood, the greater resistance forces, of Yemeni solidarity against genocide (they have faced their own by American proxies and Americans aren’t even aware of it), the countries standing increasingly in solidarity with Palestine and the resistance and pushing back against the narratives of the gemociders.
I mean, I will still vote for Harris, because I’m not stupid.
You should take a look at yourself if you think there should be a breaking point for supporting genocide. You are complicit, announcing your support for one of the genociders! Why aren’t you working against the genocide? Doing nothing would be better than offering them free support.
I know the alternative is far worse.
Normalizing support for genocide is why the political class can genocide without fear of repercussions. What are you going to do, not vote for them? Obviously not, you are still entrapped by their false logic into being their loyal sheepdog. Of course anyone that can understand politics beyond a 1-month time frame can see that this is self-defeating logic, and, per your own rhetoric, is something you should consider snapping out of when faced with supporting those that burn refugee children alive in their tents.
But I’d rather not have innocent blood on my hands after I fill out that ballot.
Then don’t vote for genociders, let alone sheepdog for others to do the same, and do something actually politically helpful. Become educated and join organizations that have had solidarity with Palestine from day 1.
Not voting does nothing to fix this issue. If you want to do something about it then do, but still vote.
Voting for genociders is a pro-genocidal. It is being complicit.
I agree that simply not being complicit in genocide is a very low bar to clear. It is a bar that liberals will loudly and proudly fail to clear while insulting the people telling them to do otherwise. Some will become aware of the reality before doing so, some after, but only if it is something they hear about.
One should of course do material work against genocide but this is uncommon among those who are trying to sheepdog for the genociders. They already believe politics is just being a loyal sheep.
Then don’t vote for genociders, let alone sheepdog for others to do the same, and do something actually politically helpful. Become educated and join organizations that have had solidarity with Palestine from day 1.
Something politically helpful like letting Trump get elected and go full genocide against Israel, migrants, and most likely a portion of the US. Yeah, that will be very politically helpful compared to voting against Trump.
Instead of trying to justify supporting “lesser evil” genocide, you should oppose genocide. If you fail to do that, you are complicit.
Have fun with your counterproductive moral superiority then.
It’s quite productive, actually.
In the reality of the current election, the only 2 options available are the lesser evil or the greater and more chaotic evil.
I am choosing neither so obviously this argument is not true.
