Clearly we have both frequently seen behavior the other hasn’t. I’m not sure how to reconcile that but I know I’m not just spewing right wing rubbish or strawmanning. I just think most of the real progress is made through conversation and not mashing the “You’re a terrible person” button. If everyone thought the same way we wouldn’t need to fight for progress, but that’s not reality and so we need to choose between conversations and tribalism. You’re free to choose tribalism more often if you prefer, it probably feels better to do that and maybe in your case you need to do that. It can’t be easy to talk to people who on the surface appear to disagree with your very existence. But the people actually talking it through are not the bad guys, they’re the ones getting shit done, changing minds instead of escalating and further entrenching people in their existing views.
You’re free to choose tribalism more often if you prefer,
Oh bite me. I’m not “choosing tribalism”. Direct your ire to the people slinging abuse at minorities, not at minorities who are tired of endlessly debating their own existence.
It can’t be easy to talk to people who on the surface appear to disagree with your very existence.
Not just on the surface. Don’t downplay.
But the people actually talking it through are not the bad guys, they’re the ones getting shit done, changing minds instead of escalating and further entrenching people in their existing views.
Historically speaking, you are dead wrong. Societies have fallen to fascism precisely because of moderates and “centrists” making room for fascism to flourish, and impeding efforts to shut it down before it entrenches itself, because they were convinced that “civil conversation” was the only way forward.
You might feel superior to those of us actually doing the work, but you are standing in the way of actually getting things done. And you will be treated accordingly.
Well the most important thing is that you feel morally superior to other people, and create spaces that minoritised people don’t feel welcome in because allowing bigots to voice their nonsense is more important than actually listening to those minoritised people.
That sounds like a strong idea. Let’s find out who disagrees with it and try to change their minds. If we get a majority to agree with that idea, maybe we can change some laws
Yeah like I said, thankless… I’m not sure how else you expect to achieve any progress with people. The type of silencing you suggest could just as easily be used against you too. “We’re right and they’re wrong, so why don’t we just take a shortcut and strongarm them?” Your counterparts on their side are saying the exact same thing so guess how that all ends
Clearly we have both frequently seen behavior the other hasn’t. I’m not sure how to reconcile that but I know I’m not just spewing right wing rubbish or strawmanning. I just think most of the real progress is made through conversation and not mashing the “You’re a terrible person” button. If everyone thought the same way we wouldn’t need to fight for progress, but that’s not reality and so we need to choose between conversations and tribalism. You’re free to choose tribalism more often if you prefer, it probably feels better to do that and maybe in your case you need to do that. It can’t be easy to talk to people who on the surface appear to disagree with your very existence. But the people actually talking it through are not the bad guys, they’re the ones getting shit done, changing minds instead of escalating and further entrenching people in their existing views.
Oh bite me. I’m not “choosing tribalism”. Direct your ire to the people slinging abuse at minorities, not at minorities who are tired of endlessly debating their own existence.
Not just on the surface. Don’t downplay.
Historically speaking, you are dead wrong. Societies have fallen to fascism precisely because of moderates and “centrists” making room for fascism to flourish, and impeding efforts to shut it down before it entrenches itself, because they were convinced that “civil conversation” was the only way forward.
You might feel superior to those of us actually doing the work, but you are standing in the way of actually getting things done. And you will be treated accordingly.
Yeah… it really is a thankless job changing people’s minds
Well the most important thing is that you feel morally superior to other people, and create spaces that minoritised people don’t feel welcome in because allowing bigots to voice their nonsense is more important than actually listening to those minoritised people.
May the best ideas win. If your views don’t hold up to criticism, so be it. I think they do, you’re just too exhausted to defend them
My “idea” that I should be able to exist in society.
That sounds like a strong idea. Let’s find out who disagrees with it and try to change their minds. If we get a majority to agree with that idea, maybe we can change some laws
Words cannot adequately express the depth of the loathing and hatred I hold towards you and people who hold your ideals.
Yeah like I said, thankless… I’m not sure how else you expect to achieve any progress with people. The type of silencing you suggest could just as easily be used against you too. “We’re right and they’re wrong, so why don’t we just take a shortcut and strongarm them?” Your counterparts on their side are saying the exact same thing so guess how that all ends