partial_accumen

What? I’m talking about buying it from Tesla. You pay them $47k and then at the end of the year receive a $7500 credit making your purchase price $39,500. I’m not referring to buying a used car at a new car’s price.

You have to refer to the possible selling price of your, now used 2024, used car. Thats how you determine how much depreciation has occurred.

Right here in your initial comment:

In 2022 a Tesla Model 3 LR cost $52k while you can get the exact same car new today for $47k.

I explained all of that in the post. Where is your question?

The whole basis of this argument was someone claiming that EVs suffer from ‘extra’ depreciation.

Not extra, but ‘disproportionately large’ depreciation across the board for BEVs. Sure there are many ICE cars depreciate just as quickly or even worse, but not all ICE cars. Thats the point that poster was making.

and I was simply asking for some real numbers to back that claim up.

And you got them.

All of your number mirror that of any other car on the road because a car with wear and tear on it isn’t as valuable as one without (the very definition I quoted above).

You’re still hung up on the less than prevalent “wear and tear” after we’ve been over that. You’re missing the forest for the trees.

I give up. Take a basic Accounting 101 course and post back here with the results of your argument with your professor about how appreciation and depreciation are calculated.

Good luck!

Cloud data storage platform is a more accurate description.

Consider the audience here. If they aren’t technical this may confuse people more. Especially because Snowflake can frontend on-prem data sources too, not just public Cloud. Unless you’re also using “Cloud” to refer to “Private cloud” which is usually an on-prem deployment, which is yet more confusion for a non-technical audience.

I was using a simple approachable description so people could differentiate that we’re not talking about a slang for a type of human behavior.

Dude, you’re all over the place. You’re now comparing used car prices to new car prices when previously you were comparing new car prices from prior years to new car prices from today.

I am all over the place because I’m trying to show you what matters is where you come from what you paid for it versus how much you can sell that item right now to determine if its appreciating or depreciating.

If I go out and buy a 2024 Model 3 LR for $47k, how much depreciation have I incurred?

Slightly more than $7500, as that is the amount of the tax credit. Any buyer that is in the market for a 2024 Model 3 LR has the choice to buy it directly from Tesla for the $47k with all of the trust and benefits (possibly preferential pricing on financing). So you’ll likely have to discount yours by a couple thousand for someone to take the risk you didn’t do something to the car in the short time you’ve owned it.

So my estimated final answer to your scenario is: Your 2024 Model 3 LR is now worth 37,500.

Previously you said it’s at least a few thousand dollars because they cost more in 2022

I’m not seeing where I said that. Can you link/quote my words where you’re seeing that?

but now you’re saying it only matters what today’s purchase price is compared to what I could sell it for used.

Okay I see, you’re getting stuck on a minor point for this part.

In economics there’s a concept call substitution. Lets say you have THE ONLY Model 3 LR ever made. Lets also assume the tax credit never existed because that just makes this even more complicated (and doesn’t change the outcome). If someone wants a Model 3 LR they have no choice but to buy it from you. If they only wanted a Model 3 LR, and no other car would suit them, then there would be zero substitution options open to them. They’d have to pay you what you’re asking regardless of how high or low that price was.

However with Tesla Model 3 LR there are lots of options for substitution. If they simply wanted a Tesla, and you had the only Tesla Model 3 LR ever made, they would laugh at you if you asked for the $52k you paid in 2022. They would happily buy a 2024 Model Y for less money directly from Tesla. So worse for you in this scenario, you don’t have the only Tesla Model 3 LR ever made, so if your theoretical buyer wanted a Tesla Model 3 LR, they could put your 2022 (assuming yours had zero miles) where you’re wanting to get your full $52k back next to a 2024 which only costs $47k from Tesla.

The buyer will probably choose the 2024 for $5k less than your 2022. They see no value in paying an extra $5k for your 2022 because they are substituting a 2024 instead. So how much would you have to discount your 2022 before the buyer will buy yours over the 2024? $5k? No. That puts your 2022 and Tesla’s 2024 at the exact same price. So you’ll have to go even lower because the buyer can get, as an example, the Highline refresh on the 2024 which the 2022 hasn’t. So you’d probably need to knock another couple thousand off at least to make your 2022 be priced at $45k to be below the 2024 at $47k.

Since you paid $52k for the Model 3 in 2022, and you’ve now sold it for $45k, you had depreciation of of $7k. Again this scenario excludes all tax credit because it just complicates the explanation and doesn’t change the outcome that the 2022 has deprecated.

Even if he did stop and order at McDonald’s, he’d probably still pay for his meal.

I’m betting someone like Gates stopped carrying a wallet with money in it decades ago and is so far disconnected from the price of anything because of his vast wealth that he may not even think to pay for his meal, not because he feels entitled, but because he has had ‘people’ to do that for him for so long.

The price hike follows Warner Bros. Discovery and Disney’s decision to bundle their streaming services, Disney+, Max and Hulu. The bundle will be available in both ad-supported and ad-free tiers. While the pricing has not been disclosed, CNBC reported that it will be offered at a discount in an effort to make it a more desirable option.

Whats even cheaper than bundling is only subscribing to one at a time and canceling before subscribing to the next one. Rotating services make for a pretty cheap monthly streaming bill.

I disagree. If borrowers are unable to afford a down payment, that almost certainly means they have very little financial flexibility, which is necessary when owning a home.

I think you’re looking at this one particular point in a vacuum. On the surface it would appear that someone that can’t produce $20k-$40k cash to put down on a house doesn’t have the financial wherewithal to produce $20k in cash that may be needed to replace a roof or HVAC system on a house.

However, zoom out a bit and you’ll see these non-homeowners have been financially savvy to successfully navigating rental rates outpacing inflation by 40%! source. Once they have a fixed rate mortgage, their ability to plan an save for home repairs becomes much more attainable.

Ask yourself this: How would your personal finances look right now if your house payment had been rising every year for the last decade and is now 40% higher that when you signed your mortgage paperwork?

Okay assuming we do go with your definition, the 2019 Model 3 LR was $36,000

I’m not sure where you’re getting $36k for the price of a 2019 Model 3 LR (in 2019). This link seems to show it at $43k, but the real price is irrelevant to your point, so I’ll agree with your $36k for this discussion.

meaning they’ve appreciated by $11,000 over the last 5 years.

If you can find someone that will give you $47k for your 2019 Model 3 LR, then yes. The market value of an asset isn’t determined by guidebooks, but by what someone will give you for it if you’re selling it, or what you have to pay for it to buy it for yourself.

The 2022 numbers you picked were the absolute peak of COVID era pricing, but they’re still selling for more than they used to, meaning they aren’t depreciating at all.

I have a 2022 Model 3 LR. I have zero faith that today anyone would give me what I paid for it even if it had zero miles on it. Why would they when they could buy the 2024 for less money? What I paid for my car is irrelevant to what it will sell for today.

If you’re looking at whether your asset appreciated or depreciated, there are only two numbers that matter:

• What it original cost you to buy the asset.
• What someone will buy the asset from you today.

If someone will pay you more than you paid, that asset appreciated. If the best you can do is someone paying less than you paid for it, that asset depreciated. That’s the literal definition of appreciation and depreciation.

We traded up to a newer house a couple of years ago (right before the interest rates went bonkers). I was in a similar pricepoint to you for target house. I found something interesting (in my area at least):

There is HUGE competition in the sub $300k pricepoint. Absolute vultures circling all the time for any house that comes on the market. Its not just Private equity, its first time homebuyers, its downsizers, and also mid income first time landlords that consumed the last 15 years of personal financial advice about “passive income”. That put me looking in the $350k-$400k. What I found here was not much of an upgrade from the $275k house we were selling. However, the $425k-$475k was a disproportional huge upgrade! I would have expected the “upgrade value” to linear. Its not! We ended up getting one posted for sale in this range. It has appreciated over $100k more in value in the last 2 years.

When you get around to looking again, see if you see this same behavior reflected in your local housing market.

Thanks! We want a second child, and I am very risk-averse. So we requested pre-approval for $375k. Could we afford more? Technically. But it is a much tighter squeeze than we feel comfortable with especially with wanting to expand our family.

I completely understand that. You have to plan for all sorts of other life contingencies under those circumstances. Cost like child care in the future will also certainly have budget impacts.

Okay, gotcha. So in your situation, its not just interest rates that are keeping you where you are but other things unrelated to rates such as property taxes, general expenses and new baby (congratulations!).

The definition of depreciation is:

a reduction in the value of an asset with the passage of time, due in particular to wear and tear.

Look at the first half of that sentence. Thats the same idea I posted with my definition:

" Its the very definition of depreciation. An asset was worth more at a point in the past than it is today."

You’re getting hung up on the “wear and tear” thing because that’s a regular way that cars lose value over time, but its not the only way. A Picasso painting continues to slowly deteriorate over time but its value continues to go up because there is a market for people wanting his paintings. This would be an “appreciated asset” even though it still gets wear and tear.

The context here is that “people are concerned about depreciation,” but why would people be concerned that they’re able to buy these cars new at a slightly cheaper price to begin with?

The context here is that “people are concerned about depreciation,” but why would people be concerned that they’re able to buy these cars new at a slightly cheaper price to begin with?

Because many people buy cars with the expectation of only owning them for a couple of years and then selling them for something newer. If the value of their EV dropped by 50% in two years of ownership instead of dropping perhaps 20% of specific ICE cars, the they would be concerned about the depreciation. Even people that don’t sell so quickly want an asset that retains its value in case it gets totaled (and they need to buy a new replacement) or in case they need to sell it for emergency liquidity.

“Toyota Motor Corp., based in Toyota city, central Japan, suspended production in the country of the Corolla Fielder, Corolla Axio and Yaris Cross. The deceptive tests were also found on discontinued models.”

For those not in the technology space, Snowflake is a software product that allows data to be stored behind it and access/managed easier.

That’s not depreciation that’s just a response to the highest interest rates we’ve seen in 20+ years and dwindling sales numbers.

Of course its depreciation. Its the very definition of depreciation. An asset was worth more at a point in the past than it is today. The reason for the value loss is irrelevant.

Can you list actual models and prices to back your claim because it seems like most people are bitching about the high prices of EVs.

I’m a BEV advocate, but even this is an easy one. In 2022 a Tesla Model 3 LR cost $52k while you can get the exact same car new today for $47k. This is even just MSRP. That $47k car is even $7500 cheaper for most people.

Tesla Model Y LR from the same year, 2022, is even more dramatic. It was $67k and now costs $49k.

“And just like that the perfect use case for AI finally emerged.”

The bed of each truck is filled with a family of dolphins. This is pod racing.

First, don’t share any information that you’re not comfortable with. I’m not trying to pry into your life. However, I’m not quite following this your numbers and seeing your same limits.

• 2017 house for $130k at 4% 30 year = $621/month for principal and interest
• 2024 house for $350k-$160k in current home appreciation-$3k (approx) in principal paid on current house means a mortgage on the new house of $187k at 7.5% = $1,318/month for principal and interest

So yes, your mortgage payment would be more than double what it is now, but the difference is only $5208/year more. That’s certainly not nothing, but you also said…

even after more than doubling our income through job changes.

Does doubling your income still make $5208 more of housing cost per year difficult?

By pushing up your purchase price and getting a mortgage on a $400k home ($237,000 mortgage with your current equity) would push your monthly payment up to $1,673 or an extra $12,624/year over your current mortgage and interest payment. Unless your starting salaries were pretty low to begin with, it seems like this would possibly be in reach for you.

What am I missing?

“The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is right now.”

Stop regretting what you didn’t do in the past, and do it now. Time will continue to march into the future irrespective of whatever actions you take. In another 20 years from now would you like to arrive there having accomplished many of your goals or accomplishing nothing?

If the students disobey and miss class for abortion care, the filing continues, the professors should be allowed to flunk students.

…and…

The two men argue that granting students an excused absence in such cases violates their First Amendment rights.

And one of these guys is a philosophy professor.

More specifically: Trump has never won the popular vote for President.