The Israeli rescue service Zaka says its paramedics removed more than 260 bodies from a music festival that came under attack by Hamas militants.

The total figure of bodies found is expected to be higher, as other paramedic teams were also working in the area and Zaka added that the bodies “haven’t all been collected yet”.

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out. Many hid in nearby fruit orchards or were gunned down as they fled.

  • nbafantest@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    There’s a lot of commenting from westerners about this, but it’s not going to matter. Israel is going to wipe out Hamas. Hopefully the regular Palestinians survive with out much damage. And in the future they have a better life.

    But it is very clear the people of Israel are very united in what they’re need to do and how to do it.

    • vivadanang@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Israel is going to wipe out Hamas.

      Honest question: to Israelis that want to see this, what does this mean? forcing the Palestinians out completely to Jordan and Lebanon?

      don’t get me wrong, it’d be awesome if you could just magically zap the terrorists, but that’s not reality. so what’s the end game with this kind of rhetoric?

      • PitzNR@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I just want to be clear, I’m stating my opinion, no one else’s, it might be the consensus in Israel, it might be not. I’ve always been against a lot of my country and military actions, especially against Palestinians, never saw them as enemies, even as a soldier I spoke out if something seemed wrong to me, even in operation protective edge I’ve been told that I shouldn’t live here if I care so much about the Palestinian, this was told to me by a soldier that I was carrying food and water for, what I’m saying is that I’m not some right wing hateful nut job when I say: I don’t give a shut anymore, I don’t give a shit where the gazan will go, I don’t give a shit if they don’t have food, I don’t give a shit about any of this, In 24 hours, three friends have lost half of their families, two friends have been held hostages, one friend kidnapped to Gaza, presumably dead. As much as a pacifist I tried to be my whole life, right now I want nothing but the sea to be painted red by the blood of the people who did this and supported it, and quite honestly, when this is all over, I want our elected officials to be rounded up, faced against the wall and be shot.

        • teuniac_@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I am sorry you lost several loved ones. I can’t imagine what that must be like.

          Hopefully, while grieving, you won’t be stuck in anger for much longer. The people that you have lost wouldn’t want children to pay the price for your country’s revenge.

          Of course you want Hamas to be brought to justice, but there are many people like you and I in Gaza that are just trying to live a life free of violence. Hamas might kill indiscriminately, but they are a terrorist/radical group. A country must not sink to their level, especially a democratic one.

          Nothing will make it easier for Hamas to find new recruits than large numbers of people in Gaza who are grieving their lost ones: and so the cycle of violence continues.

        • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Didn’t the IDF already kill the 1,500 or so terrorists who did this?

          What reason do we have to believe that the thousands of people who are currently getting bombed had anything to do with this at all, beyond having the misfortune of living in Gaza?

          • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            The fact that hostages are in Gaza, so obviously a significant number of the raiders were able to make it back with those poor folks in tow

            • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              The current estimates are between 100 and 150 hostages. A single armed person can transport several unarmed hostages. They’ll be tied up and consist mostly of people who don’t put up much resistance (since those people tend to get killed rather than taken hostage).

              Even if we’re generous and assume one guard per hostage, that’s at most 150 terrorists that made it back to Gaza.

          • Senuf@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Just answering to the first question: As of today, according to Israeli media, that number is quite off.

            • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              I haven’t been able to find new numbers today. A bunch of articles restating the number of Israelis killed by Hamas and a few talking about estimates for numbers killed in Gaza but I haven’t found updated info on how many of the Hamas terrorists died in Israel.

              • Senuf@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Well, the fact that most of them went back to Gaza makes me doubt that previously quoted number.

                In any case, I hope Hamas gets an obliterating hit and can’t recover, and that Israel remembers that not all Gaza is Hamas, so this is over as soon as possible with no more innocent lives lost.

                • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  the fact that most of them went back to Gaza

                  They did? I hadn’t read that. Do you know where I can learn more about that?

                  • Senuf@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Don’t remember right now. Been reading a couple of Israeli news sites in English, al-Jazeera, and some other news sites, so whatever I say to you now might be misguided. Anyway, as far as I recall right now it wasn’t speculation.

        • Dreamer@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Good, now think about how the Palestinians felt from the beginning.

          https://web.archive.org/web/20220526214443/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-05/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-israel-systematically-hides-evidence-of-1948-expulsion-of-arabs/0000017f-f303-d487-abff-f3ff69de0000

          If you want you can read more about the Deir Yassin massacre, Abu Shusha massacre, Lyda and Ramle massacres, Al Dawayima massacre, and lastly but definitely not least the Sabra and Shatila Massacre.

          There’s gems such as:

          “On 14th April at 10 a.m. I visited Silwan village accompanied by a doctor and a nurse from the Government Hospital in Jerusalem and a member of the Arab Women’s Union. We visited many houses in this village in which approximately some two to three hundred people from Deir Yassin village are housed. I interviewed many of the women folk in order to glean some information on any atrocities committed in Deir Yassin but the majority of those women are very shy and reluctant to relate their experiences especially in matters concerning sexual assault and they need great coaxing before they will divulge any information. The recording of statements is hampered also by the hysterical state of the women who often break down many times whilst the statement is being recorded. There is, however, no doubt that many sexual atrocities were committed by the attacking Jews. Many young schoolgirls were raped and later slaughtered. Old women were also molested. One story is current concerning a case in which a young girl was literally torn in two. Many infants were also butchered and killed. I also saw one old woman who gave her age as one hundred and four who had been severely beaten about the head with rifle butts. Women had bracelets torn from their arms and rings from their fingers and parts of some of the women’s ears were severed in order to remove earrings.”

          and

          “A soldier of Kiryati Brigade captured 10 men and 2 women. All were killed except a young woman who was raped and disposed of. At the dawn of 14 May, units of Giv’ati brigade assaulted Abu Shusha village. Fleeing villagers were shot on sight. Others were killed in the streets or axed to death. Some were lined up against a wall and executed. No men were left; women had to bury the dead.”

          and

          Israeli writer Amos Kenan, who served as a platoon commander of the 82d Regiment of the Israeli Army brigade that conquered Lydda told The Nation on 6 February 1989: “At night, those of us who couldn’t restrain ourselves would go into the prison compounds to fuck Arab women. I want very much to assume, and perhaps even can, that those who couldn’t restrain themselves did what they thought the Arabs would have done to them had they won the war.”[85] Kenan said he heard of only one woman who complained. A court-martial was arranged, he said, but in court, the accused ran the back of his hand across his throat, and the woman decided not to proceed.[85] The allegations were given little consideration by the Israeli government. Agriculture Minister Aharon Zisling told the Cabinet on 21 July: “It has been said that there were cases of rape in Ramle. I could forgive acts of rape but I won’t forgive other deeds, which appear to me much graver. When a town is entered and rings are forcibly removed from fingers and jewellery from necks—that is a very grave matter.”

          and

          Ben-Gurion, quoting General Avner, briefly referred in his war diary to the ‘rumours’ that the army had ‘slaughtered 70–80 persons.’ One version of what happened was provided by an Israeli soldier to a Mapam member, who transmitted the information to Eliezer Peri, the editor of the party daily Al HaMishmar and a member of the party’s Political Committee. The party member, Sh. (possibly Shabtai) Kaplan, described the witness as ‘one of our people, an intellectual, 100 percent reliable.’ The village, wrote Kaplan, had been held by Arab ‘irregulars’ and was captured by the 89th Battalion without a fight. ‘The first [wave] of conquerors killed about 80 to 100 men, women, and children. The children they killed by breaking their heads with sticks. There was not a house without dead,’ wrote Kaplan. Kaplan’s informant, who arrived immediately afterwards in the second wave, reported that Arab men and women who remained were then shut away in houses ‘without food or water.’ Sappers arrived to blow up the houses.

          One commander ordered a sapper to put two old women in a certain house … and to blow up the house with them. The sapper refused … The commander then ordered his men to put the old women in the house and the evil deed was done. One soldier boasted that he had raped a woman and then shot her. One woman, with a newborn baby in her arms, was employed to clean the courtyard where the soldiers ate. She worked a day or two. In the end they shot her and her baby.

          and I am not going to even go into what happened in Sabra and Shatila. Just know that just like in Deir Yassin, Zionists and Jewish extremists reneged on peace pacts. The reason why both of these massacres were so devastating was explicitly because the Palestinian people demilitarized themselves in exchange for peace and co-existence. However, we all know how that played out.


          Now, the current people of Israel flourish off the atrocities of the Zionists and Jewish extremists. Rather than recognizing the war crimes as they were, many try to re-write history and revere war criminals as war heroes. For some, that is not even necessary because they believe that Palestinian life is below them. The verbiage that many have used to describe Palestinians is very akin to how other ethnocentric societies have described racial minorities in the past, present, or future. As for you, you stand not only on the shoulders of giants, but on the countless bodies of those who were massacred, tortured, and raped. If you cared for justice, then would it not be right to give back? If you knew that just by living in Israel, you are perpetuating the status quo, then would it not be right to at least balance it out through some form of disruption?

          But no, ignoring history, you now call for violence. As we all know, violence begets violence.

        • gmtom@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          don’t give a shut anymore, I don’t give a shit where the gazan will go, I don’t give a shit if they don’t have food

          And much of the world does not give a shit about you or any other Israeli either. You guys have murdered far far far far far more Palestinians, innocent palestinians at that, then hamas has killed Israelis. And thats exactly why these attacks happened, thats exactly why your freinds have lost their families and been taken hostage. You yourself and every other person in Israel are to blame for this and supported this. If you want the blood to flow start with your own

        • khalic@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This is terrifying and heartbreaking. I’m sorry friend, may your loved ones come back… be strong and try not to turn into a monster while fighting them, it would just be another victory for them…

      • Landmammals@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Hamas the political body that is in control of the Gaza strip?

        They sent a military force to go kill civilians. I don’t know how much of Israel’s motivation is to take the Gaza strip back and move Palestinian civilians around, but killing that many civilians has definitely put Hamas into “fuck around and find out” territory. At the very least I would expect that Israel will not stop until Hamas is no longer a political entity in Gaza.

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Nuremberg scenario if we’re lucky.

        It turned Germany from antisemitism central into Europe’s strongest economy and democracy, at least up until the AfD started trying to weasel the nazi shit back in.

        Problem is this isn’t the allies making the call here, it’s Israel, who’s a lot more interested in just crippling Gaza industrially and militarily to the point that rocket assembly and launching become an impossibility, so either absolutely flattening the place, or permanently occupying the place until Fatah or another faction that’s not as batshit insane as Hamas are able to pretend to be in control while basically being a paper government where Israel’s “security concerns” clash with Gaza’s sovereignty.

        • vivadanang@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, Hamas basically destroyed themselves with this shit. The rest of the world watched their warcriming and said “You know, perhaps these aren’t the folks that peace can be reached with, go nuts Israel, bomb the shit out of them.”

          Who’s gonna stand up for Hamas at this point, russia and iran? pfft… get fucked. Any plausible case for their victimhood got lost when they went down this road.

    • Rotten_potato@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      So far the Israeli government under Netanyahu has mostly done things to strengthen Hamas, a more radical and violent (but controlled by the vastly stronger Israeli military, or so they thought) group in power in Gaza was deemed beneficial since it prevents the formation of “reasonable”, anti-violent advocates for Palestinian liberation. Didn’t really work out that well I guess.

      • InternetTubes@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        And now Hamas has returned the favor and done something that will strengthen Netanyahu’s government in what was a sea of growing opposition to him with the weight of martial law to boot.

        • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think this will strengthen Netanyahu. People will want blood for the biggest intelligence failure since 9/11.

          In fact, this is worse than 9/11, at least there it was a relatively small number of people involved. How on earth does Mossad miss thousands of armed militants, vehicles, guns, logistics and planning for an attack of this scale? The only two options are intentionally keeping this quiet or incompetence at a breathtaking scale. Neither of those two options are good for Netanyahu.

          • InternetTubes@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            9/11 gave Bush wings to invade Iraq, and it was far more clear that Iraq was uninvolved. You believe you have provided a counterargument, but you’ve really just provided an example that bolsters my point.

        • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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          That remains to be seen. In situations like this people tend to either double down on, or turn against their leaders. I think the dust needs to settle a little more before we know which way the wind is blowing for Netanyahu. My hunch is that you are probably right, at least in the short-term.

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      1 year ago

      Hopefully the regular Palestinians survive with out much damage.

      Based on the last 50+ years of history of conflict between these 2, I can’t be optimistic that your hopes will come true.

    • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      I expect to see reports of wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians. You know, normal every day stuff for the IDF.

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      regular Palestinians

      “What regular Palestinians? Those doctors and children were clearly armed militants” - the IDF probably.

      • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
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        I heard an Israeli coworker claim that the IDF is the worlds most moral army. With blind-belief like that, they are gonna commit some crazy atrocities.

      • astral_avocado@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I’ve read Hamas specifically runs military operations in civilian buildings like hospitals as a meat shield, is that not true?

        • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          This is a claim regularly made by the IDF. It seems fairly likely and I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary.

          I’m not sure how different that is from deliberately putting civilian settlements in a hotly contested buffer zone though.

          • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
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            1 year ago

            Bro you are cracked.

            This is a claim regularly made by the IDF. It seems fairly likely and I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary.

            “I have 0 evidence in either direction but the propaganda I like tells me X”

            How are people who are getting bombed supposed to provide you evidence to the contrary? Why is it not on the State of Israel to prove that their targets have military personnel inside before they kill the civilians?

            Take away the fact that Israel routinely bombs news buildings, ya know the buildings with the cameras and networks capable of providing evidence, what kind of evidence could they even provide that would make you say “no I’m wrong”?

            Lets say the people in AP building ran around and took pictures before the bombing and showed no one in Hamas gear before the bombing, people would just shift the goalposts and say “well they could take off their military gear and hide as civilians”, “oh those pictures could be fake”, “how do we know they were even taken at the right time?”

            As soon as you’ve accepted the premise that Israel can kill civilians first and ask questions later you’ve lost the plot.

            • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              I don’t think you finished reading my comment in the first place but I’ll expand on it.

              Terrorists/freedom fighters/insurgents (whatever you want to call them) regularly have their operations in civilian buildings; the IRA did it, the country formerly known as the 13 colonies did it, Boxers did it, ETA did it… It’s just standard MO because they have no choice.

              • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
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                I don’t think you finished reading my comment in the first place but I’ll expand on it.

                I did I just snapped because I think it’s stupid to excuse war crimes without evidence. It has probably happened in the past, it will probably happen in the future but to take Israels word unconditionally is giving Israel a blank check to commit war crimes. Israel gets $3.8 billion a year from the US, they should not be launching a single missile until they have evidence there is at least one member of the opposing side (or their equipment) where it’s gonna land.

                Coming back today, yeah I appreciate the latter half of your first comment and the entirety of this one.

        • gmtom@lemmy.world
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          Yes. but any sort of resistance/guerilla movement does the exact same thing. From the American revolution to the French Resistance.

    • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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      The reports I’ve read claim that around 1,000 Hamas terrorist entered Israel. The IDF claims to have recovered the bodies of about 1,500 terrorists inside Israel. Given that this is an active conflict, it’s not surprising that the numbers don’t line up but they’re of the same order of magnitude.

      Since Hamas has hostages it’s clear that at least some of those terrorists made it back to Gaza. It’s also clear that the IDF has, by now, killed the vast majority of the terrorists who carried out these acts.

      So who is currently being targeted by IDF ordinance?

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        My guess is the operation being carried out is to close the border with Egypt to establish full access control in and out of Gaza. Any other ops being carried out will either be hostage rescue, targeted attempts at black bagging participants and leaders of the attacks, or causing general mayhem to keep Hamas from being able to coordinate with itself for long enough to mount a counteroperation.

        The end goal will be twofold, 1) gain customs control over all points of entry to the strip to neuter Hamas’ ability to keep importing rockets and the parts to make their own, 2) sweep the strip for the leaders of the attack for as public and humiliating a comupence as can be legally dropped on them, and probably beyond that too. This attack put a serious black eye on Israel’s hawks claiming they’re the faction for tighter security that will keep the Israeli people safe, Bibi is probably seeing enough red that it’s a sign of officials intervening against his worst reflexes that we’re not witnessing a Srebenica scenario in Gaza right now.

        • nednobbins@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          They may move to tactics like that eventually but for now it’s artillery and airstrikes. Netanyahu threatened to bomb Gaza to rubble and it looks like he’s carrying that out.

          I don’t see anything targeted about the current retaliation; what we’re hearing and seeing now is most consistent with a scorched earth policy.

    • TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      I don’t think they want to wipe them out. The government of izrael needs Hamas for their own selfish reasons. Without a proper enemy, a proper “them”, such a fascist government like Izrael cannot exist

      • nbafantest@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think the Israeli voters are going to find that acceptable. One of the good things about democracy.

        But we will see.