That’s our fucking tax money, that’s what’s killing me. We are indirectly funding the killing of all of these innocent people. I hate life.
It’s not indirect. Every dollar the US sends to Israel directly goes to killing Palestinians.
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Fuck off with that “and Russians” crap. They aren’t even vaguely comparable situations.
They aren’t even vaguely comparable situations.
In this sense they absolutely are. No different than Iraqis, Afghans, Panamanians, Vietnamese… etc.
In every other way, no - Putin can end this war any damn time he feels like. But that doesn’t mean the US military-industrial complex isn’t going to milk this for all it’s worth.
Nah, you just framed the Russians as victims equivalent to the Palestinians and now you just did a 180 to pretend you meant to frame Russia as the aggressor when you actually didn’t. You know we can read your text, right?
Killing the palestinians (and russians) don’t matter to them it’s just another funnel from our effort into their pockets.
Nah, you just framed the Russians as victims equivalent to the Palestinians
Nope. I framed them as something the US military-industrial complex makes money out of.
now you just did a 180
Nope. I did a 0 degree turn and is still facing the exact way I was.
You know we can read your text
Are you sure you are capable of that?
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt with you shills, is it?
It’s not gonna work here, though. For all that Lemmy sucks ass, at least the users have a modicum of common sense. Good luck overcoming that. Dasvidaniya
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I saw this all the time on reddit. Some people seem to have the need to be involved in conversations but don’t have anything worthwhile, intelligent, or even just interesting or entertaining to say. They instead tend to pick an aspect of a comment, often take it out of context, then shit all over it but not in a way that’s constructive, helpful, or insightful whatsoever. They often don’t seem to really even have a point other than telling you you’re wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s what we’re seeing here.
I suggest at most calling them out on their behavior but otherwise just not engaging. They’re basically trolls, even if they don’t realize it themselves, so it’s not worth the trouble and there’s no way to ‘win’.
Tbf we’ve done it directly, too.
I’m talking about us, the people. Our government has been funding this shit for years.
Ah, got you. Thanks for clarification. Yes, I agree. Gawd almighty absolutely forbids using our own tax dollars for such ungodly things like feeding the hungry, healing the sick, clothing the naked or looking out for prisoners.
It’s sort of like a “Bruce Wayne v. Court of Owls” situation. Bruce Wayne has his philanthropy actively countered by a group that’s basically the Illuminati, this “Court of Owls” because, I’m guessing there’s an Eldritch horror that slumbers so long as Gotham suffers, but would awaken if the rich actually did anything to help the poor.
EDIT: Okay, so I found out this “Court of Owls” not only doesn’t care about the poor, they don’t care about the world in general. They serve an evil Bat-God named Barbatos who wants to use Bruce Wayne as a conduit to emerge in the world.
Bruce Wayne would definitely make it into Murica heaven. Superman might make it into Jesus heaven (which I would assume would be loving yourself, if the Kingdom of heaven is actually within us, which it is, in my experience).
Yes but you shouldn’t bring up hypocrisy here. Stopping killing now is worthwhile regardless of what various countries have done years and decades ago.
And forgetting the past leads to repeats. We have to acknowledge the good, bad and ugly and stay vigilant.
That’s generally good advice, but on a broad level it’s completely impossible. There’s no way that everyone can know all of history. We all have to learn little parts at different times in our lives, according to our own priorities and values. Also, quite obviously, forgetting the past does not always lead to repeats.
We could have healthcare. Or free college. We are all complicit in this, like it or not.
I don’t remember being asked…
Do you vote? Do you encourage others to vote? Can you do more?
Vote for who? I always do my duty and vote for the lesser of the two evils, and they all turn out to be war criminals.
Unfortunately, until we get money out of politics, voting doesn’t really matter.
The ruling class can just funnel more money to the opposing side to get them elected. They’ve already got it down to a science so they don’t spend more than they need to.
They haven’t even scratched the surface of how much money they can spend to control elections. It’s all just the bare-minimum to them, like maximizing profit.
100% agree. Until Citizens v United is overturned we do not have a functioning Democracy.
Taxes aren’t what’s stopping us from having health care. We already spend more taxes on health care per capita than countries with single payer health care. (Not that changes that we could be using our taxes better, but the myth that we would spend more taxes to get single payer needs to be dispelled.)
We already spend more taxes on health care per capita than countries with single payer health care
Sauce please
The claim doesn’t seem right. We do spend far more on healthcare than other nations overall and our taxed spending on healthcare seems comparable to other rich nations like Japan, though that’s only a fraction of our total spending - most is private cost. Quick back of napkin math says taxes directly spend ~4k a year/capita on healthcare expenses, mostly Medicare, and single-payer systems tend to cost about ~6k total. Data is a little old. Correct me if I’m reading wrong.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-much-does-federal-government-spend-health-care
Hold on. I am in complete agreement that US healthcare spending is batshit crazy. I was just doubtful that our TAXED healthcare spending was more than other countries with single payer. All our spending is private.
What do you mean “taxed”? Graph shows public vs. private.
You mean how Israelis have Healthcare and free college?
Isn’t Israel quite wealthy? Why do they even need this funding?
You don’t get wealthy spending your money.
You get wealthy spending other people’s money.
To spread culpability around.
Yeah I can see that actually. Also serves as a way of legitimising their war.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets at Israeli, if it didn’t have iron dome they’d have to prevent Gaza from firing the missiles, which means bombing Hamas and the civilians they hide behind
all your hypothetical disasters when your blind to the real one. What a joke.
But how will Jeebus be reborn if he doesn’t have a home?
The US had better pray Jesus doesn’t show up a second time - he’d take a flamethrower to it first thing. Israel won’t be far behind.
That’s our fucking tax money,
Nope. It’s not. That money they hand Israel? Completely sucked out of their thumb - I literally use the massive handouts the US gives Israel as a way to debunk the “but printing money causes inflation!” crowd.
Btw, that is an actual example of a handout - ie, not the (alleged) “handouts” right-wing pundits start whining about whenever the issue of social services come up.
Of course, they could just as easily spend all that invented money to give you healthcare - but they won’t… that’s not how class warfare works.
No, no I’m pretty sure there is foreign aid earmarked in the annual budget every year. It’s tax dollars.
Nope. Your taxes doesn’t even pay for the US military - it’s all just money they invent. Your taxes are spent by the state you live in - roads, hospitals… that kind of stuff.
When it comes to their precious military - and their precious neocolonialist shitfuckery they call “foreign policy” - they don’t rely on you.
ntg but can you point me in the direction of your sources for that? I’m kind of lazy and google/my google fu sucks for me recently. no big prob if you can’t though
Sure thing. The part you’re interested in starts at about 4:23.
Not “completely”. They spend into a deficit every year, which is partially financed with tax and partially financed with debt obligations. It’s more that any spending is paid for 50% tax and 50% “indirect inflation tax” later, or whatever the exact numbers are (I stopped keeping track).
Oh just wait until you find out what else tax money is used for…
Better not worry about that and just focus on yourself
Remember that time a million Iraqis died… for some reason?
your tax money is added to a pool. a very small part of that pool is used to fund interests internationally.
Yeah, so our dollars are killing more than just these innocent people in Palestine.
They are also killing Russians which are committing genocide in Ukraine
The vast majority of the pool is given to the military, who haven’t even successfully completed an audit, let alone passed one, in God knows how long.
Don’t insult everyone’s intelligence pretending you know how that money is being spent; none of us do.
Some of the mandatory budget and discretionary non-defense budget can be directly or indirectly linked to military purposes, but regardless, the majority of the budget is social programs.
i have some idea. do I know where every cent goes? no. the government, most governments, are these giant ponderous masses of interwoven bureaucracy, striving to complete many diverse goals. the various goals are often at odds with each other.
it’s the real downside of democratic governance.
And people wonder why they’re calling what Israel is doing a genocide…
“tAnKiEs aRe ThE ReAl aNtIsEmItEs NoW! YoU cAn’T sAy pAlEsTiNeAn ChIlDrEn aRe InNoCeNt wItHoUt sUpPoRtInG HaMaS!”
EDIT: either no one knows the mOcKiNg TeXt meme, or there are a lot of IDF supporters in here
I downvote that type of meme humor because I don’t find it adds to discussion. Even if I agree with the person, I downvote them every time.
Up/downvotes are meant for promoting relevant discussion and suppressing off-topic content, spam, trolls, and hate. They are not and were never intended to be dis/agreement buttons. People just misuse them.
God tankies are insufferable
Define what a tankie is. You obviously know, right?
Authoritarian Leftist who thinks Stalin and Mao had great ideas on how to run a country. Unironically pro-communist dictatorship.
mao literally freed them from the rest of british colonial influence and kicked off the start of the prosperity and development china is in rn
I’m not convinced from that comment that the user they’re referring to is a tankie, but simply put, I’d describe a tankie as the alt-left equivalent of the alt-right.
They’re not quite as violent in my opinion, but they push pro-china/russia propoganda and misinformation, and are just as self-deluded and delusional as the alt-right. I’ve also seen tankies justify Hamas’ attack against Isreal, which I find inexcusable and morally reprehensible. The same can be said of the IDF’s genocide against innocent Palestinians.
Tankies are on the fringe and are just on the other end of the bell curve of the alt-right.
Sure, my point was that they didn’t know. That they were just out here throwing out words they had no clue about and (in my and others opinion) doing it as an attempt to drive wedges in the community. That’s literally the joke up the thread that the guy baited the moron in with. I’ve met some of these people in real life. They weren’t violent. They absolutely we’re deluded apologists, but outside of talking revolution in the streets (which I don’t think is to imply violence either, Iceland for example) they we’re very much passive folk that just got pulled into a lame MLM.
To your later point, personally I agree, that the attack Hamas carried out on people in Israel is inexcusable. I don’t think that is ubiquitous on the left, nor should it be. It parallels quite clearly in the discussions we’re all having as to the validity of attacks on civilian populations but to some it is also a question of self defense under the massively imbalanced power dynamic between the two countries. Not only are we talking about apartheid here, but what is clearly becoming erasure. The longer this madness goes on the more people are going to question the validity of that Oct 7 attack and as I see the atrocities carried out daily I wonder if that point will come for me as well.
That’s the significance of this story. Wolf fucking Blitzer, is starting to question this shit. If you ever needed a warning that you are taking the lead in the “bad guy” race, this is a skull and bones in the tea leaves.
You forgot to mention IRGC propaganda and misinformation. The current Gaza conflict is, without a doubt, the biggest propaganda victory the IRGC has ever had. They’ve got the US left absolutely fractured. People were worried about 2024 elections? HAHAHAH just wait. We’re so fucked.
Not sure what tankies have to do with it, but I think everyone understands mocking text, and yes, there is a lot of pro-IDF astroturfing on all social media platforms currently.
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Genocide.
There is no excuse for this. Don’t you dare try and find one.
Narrator: They did.
They did try. It was that there might be terrorist infrastructure there. They know there’s civilians there, but there might be infrastructure. They’re still looking into it, but they dropped that bomb, anyway.
I’m only barely paraphrasing.
So… genocide, got it.
But… genocide “with an excuse”. That always fixes everything /s
Thank all of you dudes. This is the only non radical platform that actually consists of well thinking people. All others are…
Try browsing Reddit on this issue. Holy hell are bots gone all insane justifying that “Hamas needs to be crushed” on any civilian death. It’s a fascinating case study on how perceptions and narratives can be morphed and controlled.
Don’t have to go to reddit - you can just head on over to c/worldnews here on Lemmy to see the pro-Israeli hasbara narratives being allowed by the mods there.
This is the only non radical platform that actually consists of well thinking people
Lmao
If you exclude exclusively political lemmy instances like lemmygrad, lemmy is at most slightly more politically liberal than reddit, but without astroturfing racists being able to declare what makes it to the front page.
I don’t think it even breaks down to “liberal” or “conservative”. There’s an objective way of looking at what’s going on, the pro-Israel narrative is basically dependent on ignoring anything that happened before or after Oct. 7, omitting all other facts.
I think that’s a better way of putting it.
This site is teenage slogan yellers, too ignorant to know they’re ignorant
Stay mad that the zionists are wasting their paychecks on astroturfing reddit, fash.
go home old man, you’re drunk
That’s an insane take lol.
You’re a fat right lunatic as proven by your insane posts and lunatic takes. Get help. You need it. Badly.
If everyone else is wrong, maybe it really isn’t everyone else…
Bandwagon arguments are for idiots.
Ew, shouldn’t you be on reddit 🤢
He can also go to Facebook Twitter TT insta or YouTube!
And lemmy!
Still chasing that tail I see.
Appeal to consensus is a fallacy. One that especially doesn’t work well on the internet, because platforms are generally quite able to be influenced by bots or by removal by moderation staff or platform owners.
So you’re the type of person who would be onboard with Nazis because it was the thing to do in Germany
I found a plausible ratio-oh no wait, it’s genocide too.
Hamas openly calls for genocide
and Israel is in the midst of one…
why not? if you’re unwilling to listen to another opinion, is it still a discussion?
There is no discussion to be had with mass murderers, they stop murdering or you force them to stop.
Ow I have heard and revised those opinions. I’ve seen them in the UN today STICKING GEW YELLOW STARS ON THEIR OWN CHEST.
WHILE THEY ARE LITERALLY BOMBING A TOWN.
fck hamas but you can’t do that.
Seems like the sort of thing that, in addition to being morally abhorrent, would drive more Palestinians to become terrorists.
It truly is the worst long term “solution”. You’re not gonna make friends by bombing them, I thought that much would have been obvious.
I don’t think they want friends.
The military industrial complex doesn’t discriminate
It’s a perfect solution when all you need is a boogieman to “protect the nation” against. You get to show that you hurt the boogieman, and the wounds you inflict ensure the boogieman’s continuous survival.
It truly is the worst long term “solution”.
Israel has been doing this since 1949 - I think the Palestinians by now know the Israelis didn’t do white supremacist settler-colonialism in order to be their friends.
It gave the Israelis the excuse to completely exterminate all the Palestinians in Gaza they’ve been waiting for.
Gaza openly calls for the extermination of Jews.
It is wrong to kill people but we have the death penalty for killers.
It is wrong to imprison people but we have prisons for criminals
Any thinking person can see from the start that Muslims are not willing to live on peace with Jews or anywhere whereas Israel has always been willing to live in peace
Any thinking person can see from the start that Muslims are not willing to live on peace with Jews or anywhere whereas Israel has always been willing to live in peace
Israel’s “peace” is built upon land they violently seized from the Palestinians, from 1948 until today.
You should learn history .
You can look up the 1948 partition plan for starters, which Israel accepted and arabs went to war over. Israel ‘violently seized’ the land by defending themselves.
Under the British mandate, the Ottoman empire there were caps and restrictions on how many Jews could live in Palestine while there were none on Muslims. In every Muslim country there were discriminatory laws against Jews.
The Jewish was position was that there is some state to which Jews are free to immigrate, ie the Jews fleeing Europe. There have always been Jews in Palestine, Jews are the natives, but not a state for 2000 years.
In the Jewish state arabs live freely and it was always the position of Jews that arabs can live freely in Israel and that there can be a Palestinian state (in addition to Jordan which was a part of Palestine)
The Arab position- based on islam- is there can be no Jewish state at all. They are fascist, they think the whole world should be Islamic. They launch terror attacks all over the world against non muslims- in India, armenia, Europe, the USA, Africa…
You are just repeating slogans.
The Partition Plan, first, was in 1947, not 1948. Bad start. Here’s a Dec 1944 map of Jewish-owned land in Palestine:
Notice the extreme difference between this and the proposed partition:
The entire difference is land that was forcibly dispossessed from the Arab population that lived there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
The British immediately declined to implement the plan, and then withdrew from the region as civil war erupted.
And here are the modern lines - notice how Israel has dramatically expanded even since then, especially in the West Bank and Golan Heights:
https://me-confidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/palestine-e1453479943364-1024x701.jpg
https://www.npr.org/assets/graphics/2019/03/map-israel-golan-300.png
There have always been Jews in Palestine, Jews are the natives, but not a state for 2000 years.
As of 1890, Jews represented 8.1% of the Palestinian population, and 1% as of 1690:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
In the Jewish state arabs live freely
Inside the inner state. Outside, in the occupied/blockaded territories, they do not.
The Arab position- based on islam- is there can be no Jewish state at all. They are fascist, they think the whole world should be Islamic.
“The Arab position”? Extremely racist generalization. This is absolutely no different than saying “the black position” or “the Asian position”.
You are just repeating slogans. Ones I’ve heard over and over before. Get a better grip of the facts.
The partition was voted on in 1948.
No pals were displaced before the war. The area in the south of israel- the negev- is a desert where very few people lived and no one lived at the time.
There have always been Jews in Palestine, your assumption is that vacant, uninhabited, never developed land is somehow reserved for arabs when Jews are the native people of the land.
The Jewish position is that there be some land for Jews in israel- the land to which they are native- and the Muslim position is that there be none, not 1 inch, that it is all a Muslim state like all the other Muslim states which have had discriminatory laws against Jews for centuries.
All the further partitions are in the context of Arab wars against Israel, until 1967 Jordan controlled the west bank, Egypt Gaza, yet they did not make a Palestinian state… They launched wars against Israel in 1956, 67, 73…
Yes inside israel arabs live freely and don’t want to leave are be a part of Palestine, pals have been offered states on the WB etc… Numerous times and have always rejected.
That’s the Israeli way, choosing a hard stance that makes things worse long term. That helped provoke the Hamas attack in the first place.
Oh poor Palestinians had no choice but to kidnap, rape and murder over a thousand people. Israel provoked them by bombing them, afterwards. Provocation in hindsight or something.
Run an apartheid regime and be surprised the second class citizens react violently.
Right, there was never any aggression from Israel onto the Palestinian population prior to Oct 7th 2023.
Oh, poor Israelis, all they were doing was conducting a genocide of an entire people for 75 years, all this death is totally unwarranted!
I refuse to feel sorry for any Israeli killed by anyone, so long as they’re hellbent on wiping Arabs off the planet. Those babies that were killed were just future IDF soldiers, waiting for their chance to put a boot on a Palestinian neck and a bullet in their brain.
So you don’t think there should be any Jewish state when they’re are dozens of Muslim states and are against Israelis defending themselves. You are a fascist
Don’t you dare blame the Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, you sick antisemitic fuck. Take that nazi propaganda out of here. The only good nazi is a dead nazi, and you and everyone who thinks like you should be lined up against a wall and shot.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I hope you see the irony of your comment. You do see it, right? I’m not gonna say you’re wrong, because you’re not. But you know what? Hurting your oppressors feels so good. And it’s better to die on your feet with a gun in your bloody hands, then laying on the ground with a boot on your neck.
I was going for a simple reply, that neither atrocity makes the other right, something which cuts both ways since historic times in this matter - but that statemrnt of yours, that’s off the deep end.
Frankly, the very notion of someone who “feels so good” killing babies, it disgusts me.
Israel is really in the drivers seat of this conflict though. You can imagine a reality where they had opened borders with Gaza and given them voices in the government. Where they’re all these foreign funds for to build schools and libraries and pumping in tvs and video games and internet and helping keep the streets safe, and where it’s much harder for a kid to say “I’m going to join a millitant groups” and where, even if Palestine is fighting it, we’re moving towards peace. There’s still violence from time to time, but it’s declining.
You cant imagine the same story with Palestine. They have no power in the current relationship to give anything to Israel afaik. They can’t build schools there even if they wanted to. So (to some extent, and acknowledging that it’s horrible horrible horrible for the people involved) the lashing out isn’t surprising there. It’s not good, but also not surprising. The two atrocities are very very different (imo).
Yeah but pals have been offered peace and a state from the beginning. They are at war because they have declared war against the existence of Jews. They deserve to die at this point
Israelis are the worst at genocide then, given how much Palestinian population is growing.
All the people that never had a word to say in defense of Palestinians in the decades prior, who as of Oct 7 are experts on the region and know exactly how Hamas appeared out of the clear blue sky that very morning, while Israel was sending shipments of marshmallow dreams and unicorns to Palestine for the decades prior.
You sound like you’re 12 and have no knowledge of the history of the conflict, just yelling slogans with the mob
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I no longer have the cognitive dissonance to condemn any Palestinian for resisting Israel.
If you fight against Israel, you’re called Hamas - No matter who you are or what your opinions are. I simply will not condemn Hamas knowing that most of the “Hamas” being targeted at actually children armed with nothing more than stones and grief. I won’t condemn people driven to violence and aggression by a regime that is a million times more violent and aggressive.
Hamas was a tool of Israel and the people who spend endless days arguing over Hamas are the victims of this tool - The only way to defeat the ghost of Hamas is to support them. Only then does the Israeli propaganda fall apart, and thus the necessity of Israel to maintain Hamas as a scapegoat for terror.
It’s almost as if they want this conflict to exist perpetually…
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if the palestinian state ceases to exist, then they’re just back to being normal terrorists like hamas… presumably they’ll have to integrate into Egyptian society, etc
I think Israel is losing the information war on this recent crisis. They’re trying to defend the indefensible. There’s no way to spin “we dropped a bomb on a refugee camp” into something acceptable. And people are seeing the bullshit for what it is.
Frankly I don’t know which words are powerful enough to describe this and condemn it. I don’t think the right words exist to explain how bad it is.
This logic is just… If it’s justified to blow up a refugee camp to kill a senior leader of Hamas, then by that same logic, Hamas would be justified in blowing up Israel’s capitol buildings to kill Netanyahu.
Fucking hell, not only that, but this logic defends the Hamas attack on Israel too. There could have been IDF members there or government officials.
I don’t see how anybody condemning Hamas’ terrorist attack could not condemn this. It’s the same picture.
I mean yeah, that’s where the Palestinians are, who did they think was the target of a military attack on a city?
It’s getting hard for people to pretend that this isn’t a genocide when the people doing it aren’t even bothering to pretend it isn’t.
From the article:
“But you know that there are a lot of refugees, a lot of innocent civilians—men, women, and children—in that refugee camp as well, right?” Blitzer asked again.
“This is the tragedy of war, Wolf. We as you know, we’ve been saying for days, move south. Civilians who are not involved with Hamas, please move south.”Holy shit, Wolf is getting trolled on just as hard as us, but on live TV… I hate the future.
And then they throw a bomb in the south.
The US fucked up hard on its killing of civilians, but MODT of the time it was at least a result of supporting direct ground combat where friendly forces were engaged. At least that was true from weeks after the initial invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Israel is tossing bombs at targets, using the most advanced aircraft in the world… and their ground forces are not within 10 miles of the site.
That’s what makes this inexcusable. They had time. They didn’t have ground forces under threat. Every vehicle isn’t an IED waiting to happen yet. They have the time to check for authorization before letting a JDAM off the rails.
The right to defend has to come with purse string implications if they use it as right to kill without mercy. They do this, we cut funding. They do it more, in clearly not accidental strikes, we impose sanctions. The purse will hurt enough due to their reliance on western arms, that they change lest they not be able to drop bombs at all.
It’s one thing to have a legit terror target and mistake the building or some freak accident. It’s another to drop a bomb on a refugee camp and then simply shrug.
The video of the car being shot by the tank is a clear example of their actions. If anyone hasn’t seen it, there was a tank parked on a road sort of hidden from sight, in a ‘safe area’ in central Gaza, outside of the evacuation zone. A car didn’t see it at first, noticed and turned around still a bit away from the tank, as it begins to drive away the tank fires on them and kills them. If you look at the strikes going on now this is what it is, it isn’t a ‘Hamas rocket position’ or other BS, there hasn’t been a shred of verifiable evidence for any target that it was a legitimate military target.
military spends 2 weeks saying not to be in the operational area or they’ll assume you’re Hamas
Military tells civilians explicitly how to approach so as not to be seen as Hamas
you erratically drive a car at said military in said operational zone
how could the IDF do this??
“refugee camp” is the designation of several cities in Gaza. This was a city of 50k people pre-evac. It’s not a bunch of tents.
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. You asked why it matters and it matters because this statement is 100% incorrect.
Point A.) They acknowledged it was a known refugee camp. A known collection of civilians gathering after being displaced. They knew these people were there.
It is not a current refugee camp. It is in the North, where they told people to evacuate from. It is not a “collection of civilians gathering” - the city is mostly abandoned. These aren’t even the first bombs dropped there, by a long shot
This sort of misunderstanding lets people bring this up as if Israel is currently bombing refugees, which is a significant lie.
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Looks like that concept paper was true.
Yeah :(
Which concept paper?
This one.
Doesn’t matter whether this is real or not, it’s far from a new concept, and the experiment of Palestinian refugee camps in Egypt was a lesson that Egypt has zero desire to repeat. Hell, Egypt now is only considering allowing wounded Palestinians into Sinai after massive international pressure. The plain truth of the matter is that Egypt has NO interest in admitting any Palestinians. No Arab country does. Hell, it’s amazing that there hasn’t been a successful Palestinian revolution in Jordan, since they’re in the majority. The Arab strategy for decades has been to push anti-Jewish (not merely anti-Israeli) propaganda to redirect popular discontent from domestic politics to “the plight of their Muslim brethren,” which also has the knock-on effect of redirecting a fair amount of domestic terrorism to international terrorism; while also not allowing additional Palestinian refugees into the country because the Palestinians have a history of actively destabilizing Arab nations they’re admitted to.
“Look Wolf, we’ve experienced a genocide, leave this to the professionals, okay?”
It’s fascinating. Every war has collateral damage and Hamas deliberately hides behind civilians- a war crime- and Israel gives them opportunity to leave
And hamas deliberately targets civilians and you say nothing
What are some of your own quotes on Israel targeting civilians? I assume they’re intended to absolve Israel of all responsibility?
but this is the now. the present. well, technically it’s the past. but tomorrow is a brand new day!
Get the fuck out of here and let the grownups talk.
I meant the sentiment unironically. Apologies to those who were offended and didn’t use insulting, condescending language.
I got it. :)
It’s textbook genocide. They’ve seen they can get away with anything under the guise of war, so why not just solve all their issues and make sure no one’s alive to return to their homes?
"There could be infrastructure there, there could be tunnels there. We’re still looking into it.”
So… you bombed this refugee area, didn’t give a fuck… you got the target you wanted along with a bunch of civilians. Now, after the fact, you are searching for more justifications than you had before the attack was sanctioned.
What the fuck. They may as well just say “tell us what you need to hear for this to be okay, and we’ll say it”.
70 year of atrocities committed in Palestine with the support of western powers and the indifference of western media
2023 : IDF commits yet another round of genocidal atrocities in Palestine
western media: Surprised Pikatchu face 🤯
Blitzer pressed Hecht on the logic involved in Israel’s decision to target the refugee camp.
“This is the tragedy of war, Wolf. We as you know, we’ve been saying for days, move south. Civilians who are not involved with Hamas, please move south.”
They have been bombing the southern humanitarian corridor too. So I am not sure what he is saying.
Also, the thing about battlefields is that eventually the north becomes the south. At least if you are winning.
They’re saying that they consider all Palestinians to be terrorists. It’s that simple.
Go south if you’re not a terrorist, bombed because there may be terrorists in the mix.
Don’t go south, but stay in a refuge camp. Bombed, because there may be terrorists in the mix.
They’re all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers as far as IDF is concerned.
They’re saying that they consider all Palestinians to be terrorists.
Gee… it’s almost like “counter-terrorism” is just the politically correct term the propaganda-peddlers these days use so that they don’t have to call it colonialist warfare.
Greta Thunberg posed with a “Free Palestine” sign after the retaliation started. The IDF complained that she wasn’t telling their side, that Israel had just been attached. Therefore, she was labeled a terrorist sympathizer. That really boils down their mentality.
They’re all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers as far as IDF is concerned.
Kind of getting there myself tbh.
BBC Verify has analysed the Israeli strike locations and found that they are indeed striking ‘safety zones’ where IDF instructed Gazaans to take shelter. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67264703
once hamas has been defeated the Saudi’s still want to pursue their roadmap to stability for the region. there’s still light at the end of the tunnel.
there’s still light at the end of the tunnel.
Soooo… a white supremacist settler-colonialist state emerging victorious is how you qualify there being “light at the end of the tunnel”?
Now they will start saying that beneath every hospital and refugee camp in Gaza lies a Hamas headquarter.
We’re doing everything we can, you know, other than not dropping bombs directly on refugees
I’m just scrolling. Not really doing anything.
And nothing’s ever going to change if we don’t do anything.
So think about the question; “well what can I do?”
We can’t do shit because we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs. We are helpless, because the most conniving people at the perfect time in the past made it that way.
When war is happening we should all feel guilty.
Boycott Israel
not going to happen. look at their export list - we need all of that stuff except for the diamonds
Boycutt Israel
Spread some pro Palestinian narratives
Call your reps
It’s not much, but it can help
Cut off the funding. Do not support trade that benefits some while hurting others.
We might be helpless to stop it this second, but there are actions we can take to slow the support for this down and stop it in the future hopefully. Even little things can help, we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs but they are always outnumbered by their pawns.
Jabalya was established in 1948. It’s not a refugee camp and hasn’t been in 50 years. Don’t buy into their narrative.
The IDF spokesman in the clip confirmed they were aware of refugee women and children in the location before deciding to go ahead with the bombing.
And immediately turned around and said, “No Wolf, that’s not what you’re hearing.”
I think that’s called “gaslighting”. Or “doublespeak”. One of those.
Article 28 of the Geneva Convention:
The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.
Lmao thanks for the laugh, I’ve never seen someone cite the Geneva convention to justify bombing women and children 🤡
Edit: let me reiterate, lmaoooooooo
Yet here we are with everyone calling it a war crime, then when they are shown it’s in fact not, they just plug their ears and go on with their narrative.
narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief. aka this thread and others like it for the last few weeks.
narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief.
Agreed, the amount of people throwing words around like “genocide” and “carpet bombing” have long detached from reality.
I found the zionist shill. Can I have a prize?
Zionist? Closest I’ve come to being Jewish was a girl friend I had in high school. Been to Israel on business, but been a lot of places. What’s your problem?
Zionism isn’t being Jewish, it’s being pro-Israel and its intentions of establishing a unified control of the area. Joe Biden and Donald Trump are Zionists, neither are Jewish in faith or ethnicity. Bernie Sanders is Jewish, but against Israel’s expansion of the borders and acts it does.
It’s like how you can be against Israel and not be Antisemetic, or be Antisemetic and be pro-Israel for reasons from “I want them exported to there” to “They will allow the Kingdom of God to come to Earth”.
I am against Israel’s apartheid state, and I am against it’s ethnic cleaning of the area. Just as I am for any nation who aims to do that, like Turkey and Russia. But I don’t explicitly hate Turkish or Russian or Israeli citizens blindly because their government that they don’t have direct control over does horrible acts.
Zionism ≠ Jewish
Jewish ≠ Zionism
Actually Zionism originated in the early 1900’s and had to do with establishing a homeland for Jewish people.
I dislike Israel’s heavy handed approach, but I understand it. I dislike Bibi, because he never really stopped being a New Jersey bar bouncer (yeah he was, look it up). I also understood exactly the outcome of the Hamas attacks, and can understand the resulting war. I can also understand that civilians will be killed in this war as long as they are around Hamas.
How are they supposed to not be around Hamas? They aren’t allowed to leave Gaza (whether it’s the IDF or Hamas preventing their departure doesn’t matter that much here). Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?
I simply made a statement. Israelis aren’t going to not engage Hamas because they surround themselves with civilians. Its up to them to move.
Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?
Maybe using international aid that isn’t being stolen by Hamas and used to make rockets.
My problem is preprogrammed regurgitators of nonsense like you that equate zionism with Judaism. These things are not the same.
Nonetheless , what I stated is still true. It’s awful easy for the ignorant to assign labels they don’t truly understand.
Their problem is the facts don’t fit their narrative and its making them mentally unstable.
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Fine but calling it a refugee camp gives westerners visions of tents. It is not that.
Oh, not tents? Go ahead you can bomb then!
Just to note, they’ve bombed people in cars fleeing Gaza as directed by them as well. There really is no safe way to be in or attempt to leave.
