I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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is everyone
in hexbearinsane?Yes.
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it’s hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
Do you have any evidence of that at all? Why would Hexbear remain as an isolated instance for 4 years then, only beginning federation in the last year?
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
If your assumption that Hexbear is just bots and propaganda was true, why would it remain isolated for 4 years, with posters talking only to each other? 4 years of training? And, correction on your part, it started federating 10 months ago, not 18.
It makes more sense for these to be people with genuine views and aligned interests.
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
So you don’t, you’re just accusing people you disagree with of being propaganda agents and bots, despite them existing for 4 years in pure isolation. That’s silly.
I see it as the neonazi movement in the US in late 90s and early 2000s. They want to be edgy, but don’t have a significant structure to actually do anything important. Around 2006 I ended up stealing a knife from a neonazi that came in to the restaurant that I worked at. It was a Mexican restaurant btw lol
If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
It’s not just you
How are you blocking full instances? I’ve been playing wack-a-mole blocking communities. I’m using Voyager on iOS, if that matters.
Settings > filters & blocks
Thanks!
Keep in mind that user-level instance blocks are not the same as instance-level defederations. AFAIK, it only blocks the communities. You’ll still see comments and posts from that instance in other communities and that instance will still influence your feed with their votes.
It is better to go to an instance that defederates or to convince your current admin to defederate.
And increasingly lemmy.ml, sadly
They’re getting there, but so far it’s only a few users that I’ve noticed.
One guy seems to be following me around to attempt mockery.
They’re very much getting to “everyone who isn’t farther left than me is a right-wing nazi” mentality.
They aren’t even really left. They are super authoritarian.
I blocked them since they spew Russian and Chinese propaganda points and take revisionist stances on Tianman square and deny the Uyghur Genocide.
One of the mods is an actual Russian troll. Davel@lemmy.ml
Pro-Russian mod who keeps pretending they’re not.
“If those kids could read…” meme would be fitting lol
I mostly agree with you, but that’s the reason why I picked an instance that does not block them: sometimes it is good to see the world from a different point of view. And it’s not like the other Lemmy instances are completely free of propaganda either.
Yeah it is when you’re not affected by them I guess. But their rampant ableism and transphobia would have made me leave lemmy if there wasn’t a way to block.
The term “authoritarian” is so fraught that under these circumstances it might as well just mean “opponent of the United States” or “organized at all”.
The examples you have provided are quite absurd.
Tiananmen Square (which you misspelled) is indeed poorly understood in The West, including the historical conensus that there was no massacre in the square itself. It is, in fact, historical revisionism to suggest otherwise. In addition, Tiananmen Square is just a place, a very popular one to visit that has been the location for all kinda of events. In China, the events are called the June 4 Incident / events. Calling it “Tiananmen Square” is sometimes a sign that a person is not familiar with the history as they are using the common but misleading term that is virtually only used to forward the previously-mentioned historical revisionism to a Western audience that is in no way interested in understanding.
Re: Uyghurs, I would suggest that you read into this much more, as the topic is full of misinformation, think tanks with shady ties, fake universities, charlatans pretending to be experts, literal teenagers treated as satellite photography analysis experts, and really weird NGOs, including pro-Trump ones. One good topic to focus on is calling it a genocide at all and how that came to be the discourse. In particular, what The Newlines Institute is, why they were amplified by the US State Departmwnt, their rationale, and, of course, why none of that is taken seriously outside of a very specific political block. Following their members, funding, etc is actually a pretty interesting rabbit trail to follow. Bird’s eye view, the rhetorical treatment of Uyghurs as the subject of genocide was more or less invented, and this is is why you naturally don’t see math death, destruction, refugees, or forced migrations of the Uyghur population. This does not mean bad things haven’t happened there nor that policies were not hamfisted, but just compare how China treated a series of sectarian knife attacks (education, jobs, vocational training, investment, banning extremist Salafist practices) to how the West treated and treats Muslims (invading and killing millions).
So, anyways, I hope that you can continue your education and engage with these realities in gold faith.
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors. Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace. The CCP makes people disappear and they offer zero transparency into their judicial process.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning. Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
I can see already how much of a good faith engagement this will be. Would you be surprised if people reacted negatively to your introduction?
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors.
What I was doing was pointing out that the most common understanding is an absurdity and historically revisionist. There is plenty more that could be discussed if one wanted to, but the common understanding is a cartoonish falsehood based on memes and not any actual attempt to read and understand. The way that parent made their reference indicated that they shared this false understanding.
Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
What matters re: the point I made is that there is a conflict with the common mental image and suggests that perhaps a person should recognize when they do not really know something. It might even jostle a person to not reach for the next-worst type of sourcing and instead do a deep-dive that challenges themselves. Wouldn’t want to get caught out like that again, right?
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace.
This is the same illogical structue of the previous response. It sounds like what you would really like to say is that there is something related that you think is important so you would like to skip over what I said. Feel free to make another thread with these other points and I can respond to them there.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning.
Ad I said, the entire narrative shift is based on an absurd propaganda apparatus and not any evidence on the ground. The use of the big G word.
The fact that OP is repeating this again suggests a lack of investigation. And yet they are so dismissive! I would hope that they might become interested in doing some media criticism. Maybe ask a question. Sometimes people do this and only tell you until much later.
Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Now you are just making things up.
All I want to hear from you is an admission that the CCP murdered protestors, and that they jail people without giving families or the international press any contact.
Found one guys!
Tianmen square test: Failed
Uyghur test: Failed
I love this litmus test so much lol.
You saw them run over the guy in the square too, didn’t you? Incredible.
Got another one here!
What did I say that was inaccurate?
Lol your copy pasted “answer” sounded like Donald Trump tried to wriggle out of a tough question.
You showed that you don’t accept the Tianmen square massacre, nor the Uyghur massacre. What’s next, denying the holocaust?
On behalf of my Uyghur friends who haven’t spoken to their parents in years, because they were imprisoned for their children emigrating: fuck you. A really deep, heartfelt fuck you.
Please engage with what I said rather than leveling personal attacks.
Have you ever tried choking to death on a boot?
Please, tell us more about your Uyghur friends and their imprisoned parents.
What’s it like to completely make stuff up and post it online pseudonymously?
I don’t know, you tell me.
what about märtsiküüditamine? and im not translating for a tankie, kuradi hull!
They didn’t mention it so why would I address it? You don’t seem particularly ready to have a good faith discussion, either.
oh noes the tankie is scwared thwat his narwatiwe of genocide deniwal is being exposed as stupid. now get blocked as i have to gamble gold in roblox flying skibidi toilet tycoon
You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.
Problem is that blocking the instance doesn’t block these clowns’ comments on other instances, you have to do a lot of manual blocking.
Lemm.ee basically doesn’t defederate anything. You should probably go to an instance that defederates those instances.
While I would prefer defederation in this case, I found being on an instance ran by competent admin small price to pay.
To be clear, this is coming from you getting banned for being a debate-pervert after you claimed Putin invaded Ukraine to “reinstate the USSR” as a secret Commie and refused to take a pro-Palestinian stance, equating Palestinian resistance with a century of settler-colonial genocide.
I think it’s a bit terminally online to run away to a defederated instance to lick your wounds, rather than reflect on why being a debatebro is unhealthy.
equivilating
I think the word you’re looking for is “equating.”
“Equivilating” is not a word.
“Equivocating” is, but it means to deceive without lying by creatively telling the truth, to seem you’re saying one thing while really saying something else. This is an art form if you play a lawful good face character and your DM says you aren’t allowed to lie.
This is an art form if you play a lawful good face character and your DM says you aren’t allowed to lie.
This is the real pro tip.
Just woke up, corrected, haha. Thanks!
The irony of being banned for being a “debatebro” in fucking hexbear of all places, where “debatebro” is just the zeitgeist.
Call it what it is, he like most others was banned for having differing beliefs than the chosen narrative there.
Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.
Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Yeah, it’s actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
They still get loose and troll .world while the mods there give them free reign and ban you if you report them for trolling. You can’t call them trolls, but they can call you a troll.
Its a safe space for them to be… away from me
If you think yogthos isn’t the main account of return2ozma you’re gonna have a bad time.
fuck that guy.
Really? Damn that’s crazy.
lemmygrad? Oh, I missed that one.
Most instances have already blocked lemmygrad. Yours is one of a very few that has not.
Obviously you can’t lump them all into one category, but the majority of them seem to be willing to cause chaos on other instances for a laugh. Doesn’t sit right with me, so i blocked them
cause chaos for a laughspread harmful propaganda from violent dictators for moneyEveryone I disagree with is a paid propagandist
Paid propagandist, true believer, troll. I’m not sure it makes that much difference.
Whether they are paid or not we don’t know, but they are spreading propaganda so they are definitely propagandists.
Do you have any examples of this? Since world is defederated from that instance, I only end up visiting it when people like you come in and talk about how absolutely crazy it is over there, so occasionally I’ll take a curious peek. This time I see… a post about Indigenous rights, a post criticizing capitalism, a post dunking on musk, a post about FOSS… when do I start seeing the crazy?
Read the comments.
HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Yeah, you can always count on them to brigade.
Yeah. They’ve been downvote bombing me since yesterday. And they were telling me I’m the one that needs to go back to reddit lol
Hexbear, famous for having down votes turned on. But yeah, you’re totally surrounded by secret hexbears all down voting you
Lemmy, famous for not allowing alt accounts 😅
This is why people don’t like hexbear, because they consistently try to gaslight and use disingenous arguments such as this. How are you disputing the fact that OP is getting downvoted by hexbears right now? That’s insane.
Gaslighting? Disingenuous? You’re the one asserting that anyone down voting must be a hexbear alt, by virtue of the fact that nobody could possibly disagree unless they were already a hexbear user.
It’s just a bit circular and not disprovable anyways. Maybe the admins should just check the logs and ban everyone who’s down voted so you can rest easy. Wouldn’t want to have any authoritarians using lemmy.
I never asserted that “anyone downvoting must be a hexbear alt”. There you go again, misrepresenting my point just to feel like you’re winning.
I’m quite sure that non-hexbears are downvoting OP also. But that wasn’t what you said, was it? You could have said that originally, but instead you decided to mock OP and act like he’s crazy and there’s no way he is getting downvoted by hexbear users, which is disingenous and lame.
You know what you’re doing, I don’t need to explain your own bad faith tactics to you.
Just quoting you:
How are you disputing the fact that OP is getting downvoted by hexbears right now?
Between 2 and n “hexbears” (understood to mean “humans afflicted with hexbear mind virus using other servers”) are behaving in some coordinated way. You were pretty clearly implying that it’s some conspiracy rather than simply other users disagreeing with you.
I’m sure there are people who primarily use hexbear and use alts, some of them may even be downvoting you.
I took your assertion to its ridiculous conclusion because it’s a ridiculous thing to be complaining about in the first place, as in not a real problem.
Between 2 and n “hexbears” (understood to mean “humans afflicted with hexbear mind virus using other servers”) are behaving in some coordinated way. You were pretty clearly implying that it’s some conspiracy rather than simply other users disagreeing with you.
Lol what are you on about? People who use hexbear (i.e. hexbears) share similar traits, interests, and behaviors. They use hexbear because they fit in on hexbear, and in order to fit in on hexbear you need to pass an extensive series of ideological purity tests, which result in the homogeneity and cult-like behavior that occurs.
Hexbear is quite explicit about this, they don’t want anyone with any sort of divergent political views on their server. They clearly revel in “dunking on libs” by chain downvoting and harassing people when they say things that the hexbear hive mind disagrees with. And yet always claim innocence when their obvious brigading is called out, as you are currently doing.
It is a real problem for everyone who’s not a hexbear, because it means that we can’t have sane, civil conversations about certain political issues on Lemmy, because CCP apologists and edgelord larping teenage “leftists” constantly butt in and derail the discussion with their potent combination of ignorance and self righteousness.
Many of them, yes. They’re among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.
Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.
I have yet to see any reasonableness from hexbear.
Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
They brigade like annoying unwanted fleas that you cannot get rid of.
Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
Anytime a person claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link to it, they are lying or misrepresenting what happened literally 100% of the time.
excluding anything tanke related.
Especially anything tankie related.
Y’all will believe literally anything with zero evidence of it means making people you don’t like look bad.
I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
Definitely a joke, I’m having trouble imagining a person who could believe this in earnest, let alone enough to say it out loud. I’m even having trouble accepting that you can imagine that a person would say this with no sarcasm. No one actually believes that.
edit: just realized that maybe you’re trying to be funny and I’m slow on the uptake
Tankie is such a weird thing to call these communists. They are way way less violent than liberals and conservatives are. They don’t even support any on going genocides like the others do.
If you say something wrong about something they care about and you can’t back it up, they’re going to be rude to you.
The one dude I spoke that was decent and respectful asked for proof of the Uygher genocide, gave him proof, the proof wasn’t good enough. Gave him more proof told me it still wasn’t good enough. Figured it wasn’t worth it anymore because he’s denying everything I give him. Told him he has a movable goal post and peace be with him. Blocked the community and just found out today they banned me. There probably are people that willing to have a dialog, but the few are giving all a bad rep
Based on the link another user had to provide, you received a lengthy criticism of your logic and sources and then didn’t handle it well.
Now you are here calling them crazy.
I think I handled very well. The one person continued to refuse my assignment, so I left before OP, and I was going to get at each other’s throats. I got nothing at all against OP because they were cool. I’m pretty sure I said that 100 times by now. It was everyone else that was the problem.
I think I handled very well.
One user asked you to provide any source material since 2022. As an answer, you provided (seemingly) 3 links, none of which were source material for the claim since 2022.
When this was pointed out, rather than engage with these failures, you just posted 5 links.
A different user replied to you to point out that all of the sourcing in those articles goes back to a particularly absurd fraud named Adrian Zenz. I’ll add that the sourcing is also pre-2022, but the user responding to you wrote several paragraphs critical of Zenz and why you should be skeptical. You did not respond to this person at all despite replying to others later.
The user from before responded by immediately pointing out that your links, yet again, did not include sourcing since 2022. They then went through each link to explained how this was the case.
Your response to this: “I did learn something. You have a movable goal post. On that note, I’m out. Peace be with you”. That’s it. That’s all you wrote.
What I just described is you displaying a series of bad faith behaviors. And then you came over here to complain Lmao.
for the both of you?
Is this photo supposed to mean something to someone? Because it doesn’t mean anything to me or TinEye. No idea who that guy is.
