• SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
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    1 month ago

    I think most commenters here are missing the point.

    There is a more extreme reaction to transgender people as opposed to gay or lesbian people, because of issues like sports and bathrooms. And that hits at people’s sense of injustice. For example if you have a young daughter, a lot of people will hate the idea of a person with a penis going into the women’s room and being around their little girl. Or if that daughter grows up and joins a sports team, the idea of somebody who is hormonally male and thus naturally more muscular competing against your daughter is unpleasant.

    Put differently, I think a lot of people we now classify as ‘transphobic’ don’t actually have much problem with trans people themselves. Rather, with how the efforts to ensure trans people receive the full treatment of their chosen gender can affect the rest of society.

    For me personally, I don’t know what the answer is. I generally don’t care which bathroom you use as long as you wash your hands. I have no problem with anyone presenting themselves to the world as whatever they wish, if it makes you happier than by all means. At the same time though, I don’t think it’s transphobic to point out that somebody who is largely or entirely biologically male will have a natural competitive advantage in the field of sports.
    So while I certainly don’t want to exclude anybody, I think there is at least a little justification for restricting some women’s sports to those who are genetically female.

    • CitricBase@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I think that one thing you and other centrists are missing is that any kind of regulation isn’t just a regulation on trans women, it’s a regulation on ALL women. It won’t be just trans women that will be put in a position of constantly having their genitals checked.

      Be it for bathrooms, sports, whatever, you’re opening us up to a world where anyone that fancies themselves an authority will feel empowered to sexually assault any women they want. That’s what’s at stake here. This is a women’s issue, not just a trans issue. Hell, even men will end up getting harassed in bathrooms.

      Meanwhile, actual trans people are going to by and large steer clear of segregated contact sports like they’ve always done, feeling the pain of exclusion and marginalization while deserving none of it.

    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I don’t think anyone really cares about sports or bathrooms when it comes down to it It’s all about the patriarchy. Not a single person I’ve met has mentioned a woman who became a man going into a men’s restroom as a problem. Or them entering mens sports outside of the dimly vieled “oh well they could get hurt and a man needs to protect them from making their own decisions”

      It all comes back to people thinking men have to take care of women because they can’t take care of themselves without assistance.

      It is a reflection of how weak the people who think such are. And projecting and trying to control others lives because they don’t believe they can take care of themselves.

      If you believe in people having freedom, stop trying to fucking chain them to your ideals. (Not aimed at you specifically)

      • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        There is no patriarchy involved though? Even women actively campaign against trans male participation in women sports.

        Just take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/i39VHDmawtw

        There are no men involved. Just women, so your argument doesn’t track

        • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          A YouTube video of Donald Trump talking on Fox News is your evidence that no men are invoved in having something against trans people. That tracks

            • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Not at all. Thats the subject of the thread. Why are people, mainly conservatives, against trans people. And you posted a link to a White Male Conservative on a Conservative platform speaking against some stupid shit that doesn’t matter, and saying men aren’t involved.

              The NCAA is a business. If you believe in a free market, then don’t make laws to dictate their rules. If people actually care they’ll stop buying that product and someone will start a new league with different rules and people can participate there.

              If anything, do the country a favor and ban official sports teams from the education system. And people can join leagues outside of the college and it will help get education better suited. Scholarships should be for educating future minds to create a better future, not wasted on someone who isnt there for an education. The amount of corruption in schools do to sports in way to high.

              • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Bro hates Trump so much that he didn’t watch past the first 5 seconds💀.

                I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed. You made the argument that the reason people are against trans people is majorly due to the patriarchy, and i linked to an example of a female volleyball team refusing to play a trans team as a direct rebuttal to that point. A rebuttal you would’ve understood if you had gotten over your Trump hate and low attention span to watch the entire video.

                • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  “I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed”

                  Proceeds to say I have a short attention span. Yeah there is no way I’m sitting through anything that Fox News broadcasts.

    • BigMacHole@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      LoL at thinking Republicans don’t want people with Penises in their Daughter’s Restroom! Conservatives are LITERALLY making it ILLEGAL for people with Penises and Beards to use anything BUT their Daughter’s Restroom!

  • josefo@leminal.space
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    1 month ago

    Conservatives are afraid of change, because they control current status quo. They can’t let people escape from that control, so every nail that is a little outside it’s hole gets hammered.

    In short, they rather prefer trans (and broadly queers) to hide or die, unless they can control them. Everyone different from what they can control is a big danger. Imagine if everyone could be like they feel like? Conservatives see this as chaos, they are the guardians of peace and good values, so anything not already controlled by them is the opposite, chaos, destruction, fire.

    That’s why they rarely present anything new, their policies and general opinion tend to fight the natural evolution of civilization. USA, as obviously all of the American Continent, was built by immigrants (and slaves). Now they fight immigrants, undocumented ones mostly, because they can’t control them. And we know what happened when ‘the libs’ back then tried to end slavery, you know, other people that they CONTROLLED.

    Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

  • auzy@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    We have a lot of LGBTI people in our climbing group

    I have never had an issue with any of them

    But the people trying to be hyper masculine? Yep…

    I feel like it’s because they never left high school. A lot of them are simply trying the same thing that worked when they are a kid. Everyone else grows up

  • PagingDoctorLove@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Their systems of power rely on having an “in” group and an “out” group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.

    They’re just choosing a new group to “other” so that we don’t realize they’re coming for everyone who doesn’t fit into their narrow worldview.

  • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.

    In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.

    Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.

    • GiveOver@feddit.uk
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      1 month ago

      If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they’re the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.

        (You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)

  • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    It’s artificial boosting of the same bigotry that’s been ongoing for generations. The new part switching the target.

    See, there’s been a very concerted effort to radicalize the right wing of the American populace by media oligarchs. It’s part of an overall strategy going back to at least the post-nixon era.

    Want to crush black people? Find a way to villainize them indirectly. “Inner city” crime. Step up arrests for things that are disproportionately a part of black people’s lives. Spread drugs into the chaos brought about by destabilizing black communities to engender greater violence between gangs. And it worked. Look at how many black people are in jail compared to pretty much any other group.

    Go back to Stonewall, when the biggest movements for gay rights got going hard, and remember that trans people were involved from the beginning, but didn’t have a convenient label, they didn’t have a way to be a distinct group. Gay rights efforts worked to some degree. Enough that the far right plans to use gay people as the enemy had to find another target the same way that they had to change targets from black people to Hispanic people in the form of “illegal aliens”.

    When your plan rests on fomenting anger, hate, and fear to stir up the lowest common denominator of a populace you have to have a target, ideally more than one since there’s always going to be gaps where your desired audience will fall prey to the manipulation for one hate focus, but not another, like when you run into conservatives that aren’t actually racist, but hate anyone in the LGBTQ+ umbrella because of religion, or sheer stupidity.

    So, when gays weren’t a useful target for hate any more because enough people knew gay people, and there were enough gay people of prominence to make it harder, why not switch to the next best thing? Trans people!

    See, we had a major shift in awareness of trans issues back in the late nineties and early naughties. That’s was followed by a large shift in trans people now having a serious chance at transitioning as medicine advanced, funding shifted, and there was just enough support that more people could transition and not be alone.

    This meant that the assholes pushing their agenda to gain and maintain both wealth and power had a gift given to them. A new label to attack, using the exact same rhetoric they’d been using against gay people. “It’s unnatural”, “but what about the children?”, along with the ability to use lingering misogyny via to attack trans women in specific since they are now women, but used to be men (in the rhetoric), so they must be groomers sneaking into bathrooms.

    It’s the exact same bullshit over again.

    People have forgotten that the same methodology has been in place every time people in power needed to scare the populace enough to achieve a goal. Remember reefer madness? Before my time, but the entire thing was built in order to continue the oppression of black people, to keep them firmly under the boot.

    Go back further, and it was the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, whatever group was “other” at the time.

    But the modern version is so directly a rehash of the anti gay rhetoric that’s not even fifty years in the past that I’m amazed it isn’t glaringly obvious even to the people that have jumped on the bandwagon of both.

    I’ve said it before, but people are stupid. They’re easy to manipulate, easy to fool, and that’s the majority. Even the ones that aren’t easy to manipulate can still fall prey to it if they aren’t paying attention. People are also lazy, and have little long term thinking ability, or attention spans. That’s why we got zero lasting changes after George Floyd was murdered. Anyone that’s made it this far, think for a second. How long did it take you to remember that name and what it means? Now, ask yourself how many people didn’t remember at all.

    That’s why trans hate is working. People suck. The vast majority are easy to control, and will believe anything fed to them with the right language behind it. It just so happens that while all of the distractions being used to build up the hate also created a smoke screen to hide gerrymandering, which ends up with more and more control over what language is being used everywhere.

    So, here we are with a manufactured, strawman enemy being propped up as the target and then painted with the word “trans”. None of the bullshit used to build up the hate is true, it isn’t accurate, and most of the people behind the hate actually know it’s bullshit, but they aren’t allowed to hate the blacks and the gays out loud any more. They can’t just scream the n word or call people faggots at whim the way they used to.

    So, now they’ve got trans people to hate. And they want that hate because it means they don’t have to look at themselves, their own lives and choices. They don’t have to stop and think that maybe everything they’ve built their identity around is empty, so they scream about “wokeness” and “transgenderism” as code words.

    There’s no serious, legitimate arguments against trans people being allowed to have the full protection of the law, to have full medical access, to have whatever gender they want on their driver’s license. There’s just the bullshit excuses to have someone to hate. There’s not even a good argument about bathrooms, they’re all built on bullshit too, and that’s the one that’s the low hanging fruit because it seems reasonable to people that aren’t buying all the bullshit immediately, but aren’t quite bright enough to think it through all the way on their own. Which, again, that’s the majority, stupid people too drowned in lies and manipulation to bother thinking.

    So, Don, if you’ve gotten this far, I know I went wide of what you asked, but it really is all related. It all comes down to the same thing in different faces over time.

    For anyone else, I know this got a little ranty in parts. I know it is long enough to look a little crazed. IDGAF. This shit is patently obvious, it’s not even a secret. The people that have been running the right wing of things for my entire lifetime and before have outright and publicly talked about it. One part of it, the “southern strategy” they brag about. It’s infuriating, so I get ranty.

    • Carnelian@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Please continue with your rants then, that was the most clear and concise breakdown of events I’ve ever seen. Thank you for writing it up

    • mke_geek@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      things that are a part of a black person’s life

      Crime is just a part of a black person’s life? That’s a highly racist thing to say. Black people aren’t inherently criminals.

      • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        Are you fucking joking?

        If that’s really where you thought I was going with that, you’re the racist.

        If you’re trying to troll, good job because now I think you’re either a troll, a racist, or an idiot. I prefer to think you’re a troll.

        • mke_geek@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          No, I believe it’s wrong to automatically classify black people or poor people as criminals. Yet so many people do it.

          • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            Since that was what I said, just phrased differently, maybe you can see how it looks like you’re trolling.

            Maybe also notice that you’re the only one that took it that way.

            • mke_geek@lemm.ee
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              1 month ago

              I’m not trolling. I don’t believe that anyone who is poor or a minority is automatically a criminal.

                • mke_geek@lemm.ee
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                  1 month ago

                  You literally said that black people get arrested for things that are a part of a black person’s life.

                  Committing crimes is NOT automatically part of a black person’s life. People CHOOSE to commit crime.

  • paddirn@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.

    • A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).

      I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that’s what they thought and that’s where they stopped.

      But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.

      The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can’t they just fuck off and let people be how they want?

      It’s extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they’re not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.

      • paddirn@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        They got like 1–2% more votes than Harris got and only got ~1 million votes over 2020. Had Harris gotten the same number of votes as Biden she would’ve won. It’s not that the country went more Conservative, it’s that Democrat voters are unreliable and failed to come out. There’s hardly a “mandate” to speak of, these people are still weird as shit, nothing changed.