An Alabama inmate would be the test subject for the “experimental” execution method of nitrogen hypoxia, his lawyers argued, as they asked judges to deny the state’s request to carry out his death sentence using the new method.
In a Friday court filing, attorneys for Kenneth Eugene Smith asked the Alabama Supreme Court to reject the state attorney general’s request to set an execution date for Smith using the proposed new execution method. Nitrogen gas is authorized as an execution method in three states but it has never been used to put an inmate to death.
Smith’s attorneys argued the state has disclosed little information about how nitrogen executions would work, releasing only a redacted copy of the proposed protocol.
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You literally slip into happy fun time
Is it really ‘happy fun time’ if you know you’re going to die?
Listen to audio recordings of pilots with hypoxia, they understand something is very wrong with the plane, but they also think it’s just fine because they’re having a great day.
I always think about Destin from Smarter Everyday when I think about hypoxia. He does such a great job at articulating what he experienced and how difficult it was to know what to do in that moment.
Weirdly enough, it might be. There are videos of people deliberately testing hypoxia. I’ve seen one where the person controlling the test told the participant “you know you are dying right now, right?” and the participant responded “Oh” with a big smile. Now maybe the participant was more chill because they knew beforehand that they weren’t actually going to die. But they were still completely non-phased watching their brain shut down in real time.
I’m opposed to the death penalty. But if I had to choose my own way out of this world? Hypoxia is probably top of the list.
I got a bit hypoxic on top of a mountain. It was 29°F with the wind you’d expect at 14000ft, and I’m just standing there in a t-shirt because I was just so nice and warm, also I was so loopy I could not stop laughing.
Did you die?
Yes, but they got better after.
Phew
Completely ignoring that execution is wrong for a number of reasons
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Why would you even bring up hunger when human trafficking exists in the world? Shame on you.
Guys, I think I found a solution to both. Hear me out.
What if we feed the trafficked humans to the hungry humans.
Win win. No more trafficked humans and no more hungry humans.
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Might be trying to delay the execution itself since there is a shortage of the “regular” injection they use because of embargoes?
The issue is with the specific protocol being used. It’s not made public or documented. It’s almost all though they’re interested in torturing him instead of humanely executing him.
If done right. You know that people qualified to do it right don’t participate in executions, right?
That’s why they fuck up giving someone injections on a regular basis.
How does one fuck up flooding a room with nitrogen gas?
So you see no difference in lethal injection and filling a room with nitrogen? If not, there’s no point discussing it with you. But I’ll give you a hint! Worst case, there’s not enough NO2 to cause death, so the subject gets stoned as balls and they introduce more.
This ain’t rocket science.
I see no difference in an incompetent person trying something they are not qualified to do and then trying to do another thing they are unqualified to do. I expect them to fail at both.
You also don’t appear to understand how the NO2 process works. It isn’t that they just need to add more N02, they also need to remove the oxygen AND CO2 at the same time. That is actually fairly complicated and requires knowledge on air movement in a restricted space. If they can’t properly dose someone with needles, good luck on them doing it right with airflow.
When the original news broke about Alabama using nitrogen, my wife woke me up by hitting my arm to tell me - because I've been saying that is the most humane possible method for the last 16 years.
I think the death penalty is stupid to begin with, and am kinda over talking about its merits after years of debate team in high school and college. But trying all of these seat-of-pants cocktails of midazolam and pentobarbital etc, and then inventing all of these ridiculous devices that require two people to push buttons at the same time so no one ever really knows whose button actually killed the person… it's just needlessly complicated and dumb. Not to mention the fact that the legal costs involved in defending appeals and housing someone on death row are much higher than the cost of a life sentence anyway. And that's leaving aside the statistically significant number of wrongful convictions…
I mean, we shouldn't have the death penalty. But if we're going to, it should be by nitrogen hypoxia.
You’ve experienced this?
We should not be executing anyone. Hypoxia is well documented so he would not exactly be a test subject.
Note: if I were to commit medically induced suicide it would be by nitrogen hypoxia. By alla counts it is the best way to go.
1000% and I hope to have the right to die via this method some day.
What about n2o hypoxia?
The test is not of the efficacy of hypoxia, but of the state’s competency.
Going to guess it is significantly easier to be competent enough to kill someone with hypoxia rather than a cocktail of multiple constantly changing drugs administered by someone who had little training.
It’s way better than an electric chair.
Moat likely, but since qualified people don’t participate in executions it will probably end up being done wrong and he will suffocate to death with carbon dioxide and suffer horribly in a different way.
Unlikely, unless the nitrogen flow rate is way too low. Even then, it would take a considerable amount of time.
They keep fucking up injections, do you think they are going to get airflow stuff right?
Should just be opening a valve. There’s no mixture to get right like with the injection. Just 100% nitrogen.
You would think so, but the people who are fucking up injections are making even more basic mistakes than the amount of chemicals. They are extremely likely to mess up the seals, the equipment that has the valve, and a ton of other steps that would make the process work successfully.
One third of executions in 2022 were botched. Why would a new method have a higher success rate?
Why would you assume a new method would have the exact same success rate as different methods?
Because I assume the same incompetent people will be trying something new and therefore more likely to fuck it up.
Because it’s extremely simple.
You can still think executions are wrong without making up nonsense to justify it.
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No, he’s right. Qualified medical professionals don’t do executions.
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This is interesting, and I personally feel he is fighting it only because it buys him more time. In a different article (linked in this one), where they announce Alabama’s plan to use nitrogen it says:
Smith, in seeking to block the state’s second attempt to execute him by lethal injection, had argued that nitrogen should be available.
So he literally asked to use nitrogen, they said “ok” and now’s he’s saying “how dare you try to use me as a guinea pig”
America is so fucking stuck in stone age, it's schocking at times!
The state should never execute anyone because it implies two things that aren’t true:
- That the system is infallible.
- That a person doesn’t have the capacity to improve/rehabilitate.
That being said. I’ll take this method over any other for sure.
I absolutely agree with you in the first point, but I think there are cases where person really doesn't have the capacity, or we don't want to try it. I think of mass murderers or child murderers or something like that. People who are going to spend their whole life in jail with life-sentence with no way of ever getting out and who cost the state money and are the reason why some people want death sentence back in my country for example. The first point still applies however and there are cases of people getting out of jail after ten or fifteen years when new evidence is discovered.
I agree with part 1, but the majority of people on death row do not deserve rehabilitation.
I’ll take it if he doesn’t want it.
I was gonna say they could test on me, but I don’t want to support the death penalty.
Unless they’re pedophiles!
To make the same point in a less sarcastic way, it is a problem that just throwing the term pedophile at someone immediately ostracizes them and society is willing to condem them to effective death.
It’s so bad that a jury doesn’t even really need evidence to indict. Because apparently seeing one, potentially censored image is enough to cause PTSD?
I’ve seen people being decapitated without getting PTSD. I’ve seen horrible things from the Holocaust. I don’t think one image is going to cause permanent damage. (I fully believe dealing with this stuff every day for years can be an issue. That’s different.)
We need to drop just a bit of the hysteria.
A while back round where I live a guy was burned to death by a mob of his neighbours because people were saying he was a pedophile. Turned out he had only been taking photos of kids vandalising his garden. Oops.
Link to that news article?
Thanks for sharing, but, at the same time, I really wish it wasn't true.
I agree with you when it comes to the ostracizing problem. I would just like to remind you that not everyone is psychologically identical to you. Some (perhaps many) people CAN get PTSD by looking at a picture of a terrible crime.
I don’t think a bunch of people got PTSD from 4chan 2004.
I don’t think willing participants count ;)
Ah yes, 4chan, full of normal, well-adjusted people
WoO stupid take
Why?
Pedophiles usually don’t want to be pedophiles and won’t act on their desires; they’re just quietly suffering from mental illness and just their existence shouldn’t change someone’s stance on the death penalty.
Yeah, I’m talking about the pedophile who do act on their desires.
Sorry that needs to be spelled out for you.
Glad we can both agree they deserve the death penalty.
I agree that there are some crimes so horrible that the offenders no longer deserve to live. The trouble is that I don’t trust police and the courts to correctly identify the guilty all of the time. Until there’s a system that can prove guilt with 100% accuracy we shouldn’t have a death penalty.
Right? Why aren’t suicide booths a thing yet?
The capitalist owners could make more profit off it, and that’s literally all human civilization values. And bonus, the people the Capitalists and their doting peasant sycophants consider “lazy, socialist commies” would largely opt out, leaving them to count their shillings in peace, unopposed.
Is it about needing a homeless population that can’t (easily) opt out to scare the other peasants into continuing to show up for their purposeless jobs? Or just the last thin fig leaf of the capitalists deluding themselves into believing themselves less than monstrous?
Because being trapped in this labor camp of a civilization isn’t mercy. It’s the opposite of mercy. Not legalizing escape isn’t the same thing as valuing life, and we clearly don’t. It’s the same thing as an anti-abortionist claiming to value human life while opposing social programs to help the newborn and mother.
Capitalists make portable suicide booths called guns! They love them
I support giving convicts with death sentences the right to choose the means (within reason). Nitrogen hypoxia is probably more humane than most of the methods we’ve tried, although I personally prefer bringing back the guillotine. If we’re willing to kill a man for justice, we ought be willing to reject childish euphemisms (putting him to sleep) and make a bloody mess of it.
make a bloody mess of it
Personally I've been advocating for the "shitload of explosives" method. It doesn't get much more humane than being blown to a red mist in milliseconds, and the audience would love it.
Medicalized death sentences like the lethal injection seriously creep me out. Even a murderer deserves to face death with dignity, not strapped to a table and injected with poison.
Nitrogen Execution?
They’re gonna freeze him and
striketap him with abaseball bathammer?Then deploy a bunch of Roombas to clean up the human icicle shards?
That would be the liquid nitrogen execution.
Jokes on them when the shards melt, and begin to reform, to continue his inexorable pursuit of John Connor
They’re going to freeze him, and then John Spartan will summarily execute him in a politically correct fascist regime in the future lol
That’s liquid nitrogen, bro. This is nitrogen gas which in a confined space will consume all of the available oxygen and thus induce asphyxiation (suffocation).
Some might even consider this a kink 👀👀
It doesn’t consume oxygen. Gaseous nitrogen is very stable.
However, if there is a higher concentration of nitrogen than there should be, then you take in proportionally less oxygen in each breath.
You know you live in a third world country if you have discussions about how to kill your citizens. There is no need for the death penalty but a twisted and false sense of justice.
Last time a new method of execution was made, lethal injection, it was developed by a veterinarian who vaguely described how it might work and then it was administered by non-physicians because no doctor would ever touch this. I wonder who developed this new method.
Actually it’s pretty well understood.
The human body reacts to CO2 buildup with a ‘gasping for air’ sensation. Nitrogen however, not at all. The air we breathe is 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen, so we aren’t sensitive to nitrogen at all. Breathing air with little oxygen is something well understood as it can happen to pilots of unpressurized aircraft. Here’s a funny example of what happens when pressurization fails. Once ATC figures out he has hypoxia, they order him to descend to 11,000’ (which is usually the point hypoxia starts to kick in) and he’s fine. But while he’s hypoxic, he happily admits he has no control over his airplane and is totally unbothered by that fact.
There’s a thing called a hypoxia chamber- the oxygen % of the air is reduced (not eliminated) to simulate what it’s like being at high altitude without pressurization. Always funny videos there, grown men with oxygen-starved brains playing with a children’s puzzle trying to put the square block in the round hole.Execution by 100% nitrogen is the most humane death I can think of. The gas is odorless, and as it takes effect the prisoner would experience a euphoric feeling before just falling asleep and dying a few minutes later.
That said, I’m sure they’ll fuck this up somehow- most civilized people have concluded that execution is barbaric and unnecessary, so whoever builds the nitrogen gadget is probably not going to be the sharpest tool in the shed.
And that’s what a botched execution would look like- if you shut off the nitrogen too soon or don’t ensure a high enough nitrogen concentration, the prisoner will be left with brain damage but not dead.
A glib reply would be “What’s the worst that could happen?, they’d die?” but a far worse outcome is that they remain conscious but in constant pain for an unnecessarily long time. I’m personally against execution of any form but if it’s going to be done let’s make sure it’s humane.
well what you describe is how Normal executions go. Doctors won’t do it so it’s done by prison guards with no medical training and is often so disgusting the witnesses need counseling
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My brother in christ, public executions were a thing in a time when the majority was religious.
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Alabama really shows itself to be one of the most savage states when it comes to their treatment of prisoners. Fucking monsters.
What an idiot, he’s just turned down the most humane and painless way to go. You don’t notice nitrogen suffocation, because your body ignores nitrogen in the air and determines you’re suffocating by a build up in CO2. Instead, you pass out in blissful hypoxia.
I’m against the death penalty as a rule of thumb, but if you have to do it then it should only be done via nitrogen suffocation. Anything else is just a refelction of the vindictiveness of the people administering or pushing for the punishment - it doesn’t achieve anything, it doesn’t deter future crime, it’s just you getting your own back and trying to say it’s ok to harm others in this instance. If the goal is to remove them from society such that they don’t harm or cost society anymore, then this should be done without the kind of harmful intent that the criminal themselves demonstrated.
Tbh though I imagine this is just the guy’s lawyer trying to do anything he can to delay the execution. There’s some small chance that the state could do something wrong during the hearings that leads to some benefit for the prisoner. However I can only imagine the regret the prisoner might feel as he’s on the receiving ends of one of the other methods.
Yeah the difference is this method is actually promoted by the scientific community, rather than commercial interests. Nitrogen suffocation is used for assisted suicide.
I just wish we’d use it for pork. However because it’s so hazardous to humans (boiling nitrogen releases gas that expands very quickly and expells all the oxygen in the room) we just stick with CO2, which is very easy because it’s heavier than air so you just have walkways to protect the people. With nitrogen, they’d require much more expensive safety measures to protect people working nearby. Also, CO2 causes a feeling of suffocation, leading to the pig lashing about and suffering, and possibly spoiling the meat somewhat.
Electrocution is perhaps the worst. They actually limit the current, meaning it kills you a little more slowly or maybe not at all, because if they went full power they would literally cook the person and that would smell unpleasant for everyone else. Lethal injections aren’t much better, typically they paralyse the person first so they can feel themselves dying but not move to show any sign of it.
I’m certainly keen to learn of any further downsides to nitrogen, but as far as I’m aware it’s the best thing going (out of a horrible bunch of ways to kill). Like I said before, I’m against the death penalty as a rule, but if you’re going to do it then it should be as painless as possible.
Why people are so obsessed with finding more and more intricate ways to execute? Hanging or shooting in the head works just fine.
Those are not painless methods and they hearken to a sense of vengeance, not justice. If someone is truly so irredeemable that we cannot re-educate them to learn to be good citizens or at least non-offending citizens, then we should remove them from the ability to cause further harm. But we are not in the business of causing suffering, at least not on paper we’re not. So we should give the person a civilized death with no pain, as causing pain is not justice, it’s vengeance.
Why execute them then? We clearly have no issue incarcerating people for life.
Personally If there’s no chance someone will ever be released, I find that almost more cruel then a painless execution. As long as it’s 100% without a doubt guilty I support this method of execution.
People would choose life in prison because deaths scares them, but spending 25-50 years in a box sounds worse to me than death does. Not only that, they have 25+ years to likely just wait to develop cancer and spend another 1-5 years dying slowly and painfully.
I mean, I only believe in execution for people who are genuinely beyond help, extreme psychological damage or deficiencies, and that’s because I don’t believe in life incarceration either.
If someone can be reformed, reform them. If they can’t, caging them like animals for the last of their days is almost worse than the death penalty for me too. A man who is sentenced to die in prison for his crimes due to the years he’s sentenced, he should be able to opt out and go for the painless death. No forcing, no incentive, no coercion, death with dignity.
Honestly, with some prison reform I don’t think we’d need 40-50 year life sentences as often because people could actually change. For those that can’t, or who are too old to be able to change before their time served, the right to end it peacefully is something I think we all owe each other.
The death penalty is already about vengeance and not justice. Removing them from society completely is justice for harming society.
Removing them painlessly if they’re not able to be rehabilitated, definitely what I would call justice.
Hanging, shooting, whichever other painful or ‘old world justice’ method, I’m hesitant to call that justice because it causes pain and suffering needlessly. Criminals treat people less than people. People must treat criminals like people, or we’re all criminals.
Why would killing them be more justice than simple removal? Either way they’re out of society.
Plus, if we accept that laws are not 100% fairly and correctly applied, we get the added benefits of not killing the innocent.
But I’m all in agreement when it comes to reducing the cost. I don’t love the death penalty, I think it should be reserved for absolutely impossible cases, but it should be cheaper.
