They think Trump is BETTER on Gaza?
Mr. “Nobody has done more for the Jewish people than me”?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/us/politics/trump-gaza-refugees-travel-ban.html
If Gaza is your single issue in '24 there’s NOBODY to vote for.
Don’t be a single issue voter either. Shit is too important to throw away your most valuable resource to combat climate change, ensure world peace, fund science and medical research, and equal rights for everyone.
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does. Federal and local elections. It’s very important everyone vote.
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Nope. 37 now and I’ve always voted since 18. It doesn’t matter. I’ll never vote ever again. It means nothing.
Dumbest comment of the thread right up there folks.
When elections get decided on less than 100K votes across the country morons like this are essentially voting for fascism by not voting.
Shit, we’ve had elections where the issue was less than 1,012 votes. Wikipedia even has an entire list of close votes. It’s insane how many are so close. It’s much more common than one would think.
Wouldn’t want a person like this to vote anyway. Not very good at reasoning.
I honestly think people like you are why Trump ever got elected. You have no clue what kind of person @jo3jo3 and yet you call them stupid and spew almost the same kind of vile that you claim to warn against by them not voting. It really makes no sense to me how you can equate someone disillusioned with the entire process to be the same as someone who is out to get you. If you want more people to vote Democrat, then when people vote for your candidate merely because they hate the other candidate so much, then next time find a better candidate. Don’t tell them in 4 years, oh, we decided to not change a thing and you now have the same choice… either vote for our same mediocre candidate, or else the world will end. The doomsday gloom strategy only works if people believe you actually want change, not once you’ve shown them that is your entire strategy.
In other words, you can ask for money saying you can’t pay your rent, but when I see you spending it while out partying and you ask me again… don’t expect me to trust you.
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.
That’s what you’re going with? People like me are the reason Trump got elected?
Not the protest votes? Not the people who sat home? It was me who is responsible. The person who voted Hillary in a deep red state knowing it would amount to virtually nothing but held my nose and did it anyway. I’m the person responsible.
Excuse me when I say it but… get fucked.
Yes… here you are calling people stupid instead of holding your own party accountable. If you actually had any awareness, you’d be telling people how the Democrats have changed since 2016. Or what the Democratic party has done different since 2020 to regain trust. Instead, your ad hominem attacks make you out to be the one lacking intelligence. The ironic thing is, us stupid people actually feel bad for people like you. Like, despite you telling us that you’ve hated us since 2016, we just hope that you leave the cult one day.
I can understand his position though. When the candidate who won the most votes couldn’t win the election. Then why vote?
Because you know the rules. It’s arbitrary yes, but in every election except 00 it’s been arbitrary and predefined what the rules are. The best way for the person you want to win to lose it to not vote
Nah, his position is literally only understandable if you’ve never had a conversation ever with a queer person, a PoC, or a woman who has thoughts other than quiverfull syndrome baby madness.
Nope. I didn’t fuck this shit up by not voting, they did it. My one vote is not that powerful! If it was I would still be voting 🤣 Dumbest comments in the thread are the ones that think their votes matter.
I’ve made absolutely zero difference all the years I’ve voted, so why should I bother anymore? I just don’t care. The US is a car speeding down a road to a destination, who is driving that car doesn’t matter, change it every four or eight years, it makes absolutely no difference, the US will arrive exactly where it’s headed no matter who is in charge or whether I vote or not.
Plus it’s my vote to do with what I want, I choose to not use it. Give me someone worth voting for and I will show up first, they never will though.
You are dead wrong to imply a single vote can not or has not made the difference to win elections. Even if the national isn’t decided by a single vote local votes matter and they are where these razor thin margins are prevalent.
The only way we will hear the actual voice of the people is if everyone who can speak does so.
Lastly, what is the harm in voting? It takes very little effort, especially if you are in a mail-in state. It could make some difference, that makes it worth it easy or not
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I voted third party or did a write in the last few cycles, people told me I voted for fascism doing that. So how can I win? 🤣
To be fair, in all my responses, I am mostly referring to presidential elections, I’m not arguing that the small local stuff can and does matter, and sometimes those races come down to just a few votes. Ya that’s true.
Don’t think there’s any harm in it at all, I just don’t care, and if I don’t care I’m not engaged and educated on all the issues, then should I really be voting? Or is better I sit out since I’m not following anything at all and can’t make good informed decisions anymore?
Lots of downvotes 🤣 Confused as to why on this specific comment! I am supposed to make uniformed decisions when I vote? Because your downvotes make it seem like I need to vote whether I’m informed or not, which seems just as silly or dumb as anything else in this thread…
Voting is literally the absolute bare minimum you can do to make sure fascists aren’t in power. I hate democrats as much as the next guy, I just don’t vote for them when they’re not running against literal fascists, but a lot of republicans pretty much are just fascists waiting for the chance to take people’s rights and lock up dissenters and minorities. Keeping them from fucking things up is one of the most important things you can do.
And think about this: if your vote was meaningless, why would republicans fight tooth and nail to make it harder to vote? Your average American likes republicans a lot less than democrats and would vote for a democrat, especially among less privileged demographics. Republicans have been working for decades to prevent these people from voting, and tried to make it more of a pain in the ass for everyone else, with some voters even going so far as to set up with guns outside polling stations sometimes. Your vote absolutely counts, and the more people realize that the truer it will be.
If you’re not gonna vote, either do something more useful like protest or do work for your community or don’t complain when republicans win and make your life worse. You can do a mail in ballot or vote early, it takes almost no effort to do. I wouldn’t have voted for biden in 2020 if it weren’t so easy to vote, between covid and how little I like him I was just gonna stay at home.
I think the only hope for the US and the world to not get completely fucked by war, oppression, and climate change is to vote for democrats, even ones who have done some shitty things, when they run against politicians whose main goal is to bring more war and oppression and climate change. As fucked up as the two party system is, it’s what we’re stuck with for now, and the only two paths towards reforming it are keeping the far right out of office, or a revolution that would kill at least thousands and maybe make things worse. I don’t think things are hopeless enough yet, for the country or the environment, for the latter to be a good idea. That stays the case unless we get 8+ years of DeSantis or Trump or RFK or anyone similarly fashy with republicans in control of everything
Nope. I haven’t lived in the US for 14 years. I’m not voting. I’m not protesting shit, nobody is listening anyway, why would I bother. No, I’m done. I have a higher quality of life where I live now, I’m just a spectator. The US is in a downward trajectory, my one vote will not change that.
I did volunteer by the way, I came home to volunteer for Bernie’s campaign both times. It’s not like I didn’t care, I voted nearly 20 years of life that I was able to, it hasn’t meant a damn thing except disappointment. I’m perfectly fine just watching the world burn, my vote can’t stop it. Nothing I do can stop it. I’m just going to chill and enjoy my time, watch show, enjoy the ride.
If anyone has a time machine and we can go back to before Bernie got robbed, I’ll vote. But not anymore, not a chance. No matter how I use or don’t use my vote, it will be the wrong choice. This is not my fault, I had nothing to do with how we got to now, until not I have always voted, just now now, not anymore. And what did all those votes get me? Jack shit.
Seriously! I did like 10 jumping jacks once and ate two carrots a couple years ago, and guess what? I still don’t have a six pack. People that work out are just lying to make us feel bad. Don’t fall for it!
That said, I live in a different place now where sensible legislation results in me having easier access to better, healthier food. I’ve even been able to replace my commute to work with a bike ride instead of a long drive in a car. I’m so much healthier now thanks to the way the people here vote.
Then you are letting the people you hate the most win. Don’t let them win. If anything, vote so you can say you didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world.
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It can and will get much worse
How’d they do in 2022?
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How about in state races and the Senate?
Rusticus said all that?
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There are not 50 votes to remove the filibuster, and there are not even 60 Democrats in the Senate. Sharing power is a necessity to pass anything.
And after the shit show you’ve seen with the House, do you really think Republicans achieved a victory by barely taking it?
You think it will get better if you just ignore it? You think it will be better if Trump is back in Power?
Sadly it seems that American democracy is voting for the lesser of two evils, but if you don’t vote at all you will be stuck with the worse of two evils for a long time, and I am worried about the consequences of that for both America and the rest of the world.
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But they all fuck over the world, every vote is the wrong vote when they give you two shit options. Screw that, I’m a spectator now, this shit is burning to the ground, I’m not participating, I’m just watching.
I can’t criticize you, but you are choosing anarchy. Not sure what your history and upbringing is, but anarchy can be significantly worse than what you have now. If you’re not a white male, there are many places in the world with anarchy where your life is under valued even more than in America.
If anything, vote so you can say you didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world.
I’ve tried that too. I still lost, still bummed out, still felt like I made zero difference, still criticized by others even when using my vote so I can say at least I didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world like you said. For reference, I voted Obama, then Jill Stein, then the last two times I wrote in Bernie. So I did use my votes, and I always got the same response people gave me here, that I was dumb voting third party, or an idiot to waste my vote writing in Bernie. People would tell me a write in or voting third party was essentially a vote for the wrong team. So when I use my vote, it’s wrong, if I don’t use my vote it’s wrong. Now I just don’t want to participate anymore. So maybe “they” win now since I’ve checked out, but is that any different than playing this rigged game my whole life, holding out hope things will change and get better, when in the end, “they” will always win?
Vote or not, they still win
Define “they”
The wrong people 🤣🤷🏻♂️ I don’t know, shitty leaders.
So, like you?
Young people not voting is very, very bad for Biden though.
Young people not voting is explicitly voting for a christofascist though.
yay “democracy”
In every voting system, not voting is equivalent to a vote for the worst option.
That’s how democracy in general works. Even with ranked choice voting, if someone only puts candidate A as their choice because they disagree with everyone else, then their vote doesn’t count if candidate A is eliminated in the first round.
Not voting at all just lowers the threshold needed to win.
I’m sorry, but that’s not even close to how democracy in general works.
I’ve lived, worked and voted in The Netherlands where vote is proportional and there the “useful vote” (or as it should be better called “negative vote” as people vote against the other candidate rather than for a candidate) does not exist at all.
I’ve also lived and voted in other coutries of Europe with different systems and the Dutch one is one of the best and that certainly gets reflected in their politics (those of consensus, not partisanship) and outcomes and the only one which is as bad as the US is the British one (in fact, with a Monarch with real power and an unellected 2nd House, it’s probably less democractic than the US system, though at least their uninominal electoral circles aren’t as large as in the US)
(All those countries were EU countries at the time, hence why I could vote in all of them, though in some only in Local Elections and for the EU Parliament)
The US is a not a Democracy, it’s this wierd Power Duopoly system with a near-symbolic vote sitting between a Power Monopoly (i.e. Dictatorship) and real Democracy.
Do not confuse your ignorance when it comes to voting systems with what is maybe one of the most visible effects of anti-democratic voting systems being “how democracy in general works”. Not! Even! Close!
We’re talking about NOT voting, you illiterate fuck.
That’s quite the pure animalistic lashback.
Your words: “In every voting system a non vote is a vote for the worst option”
So I just pointed you out voting systems were that’s not the case.
That emotional reaction at me pointing that out and that the American voting system (clearly all that you know) is particularly anti-democratic even amongst flawed voting systems is a pretty good indication of somebody either whose identity is entwided with a nation which they must believe is superior to see themselves as inherently superior or being one of those wankers who firmly believes he’s always right with no requirement for proof and whilst being incapable of taking in criticism to such a level it’s an actual diagnosable mental disease, hence my criticism of the nation and that proven wrong unsupported belief resulting in such emotional pain and rage.
Normal, healthy and non-brainwashed individuals don’t react like that.
That’s some seriously fucked up psychological shit ridding you that I wouldn’t wish on my worse enemy.
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because this system wont bring what people actually want/need.
motherfuckers will have to actually get up and fight for it to be changed for the better.
Yeah well we got him. The alternative wants to ban Muslims and queer people. It fucking sucks, vote anyway
It is what it is. If we care about climate change and LGBT people, there’s a clear action we have to take.
Exactly
Nah.
Young people don’t fucking vote. It doesn’t really matter what they want.
Biden wasn’t shoved down anyone’s throat. Everywhere that mattered in the primaries had single digit turnout for 18-29 year olds.
Every year that goes by more and more of them vote. Kids turning 18 today are fired up to vote.
I’d also like to see the voting age lowered to 16. Even 16 year olds know you don’t take babies from their mother’s arms and lock kids in cages.
Personally I actually think it should be tied to the working age, and for all schools (but especially highschools) to be made into voting centers.
The youth thinks voting in a presidential election is all they need to do to make change. That is the bare minimum. You need to vote in every election, small ones that happen locally, every rep and Senate one. You also need to encourage other youths in strong conservative areas to move the needle to more liberal, progressive views. Then you need to get active and show the people running that there is a strong unified voice that demands these changes. But there is tic Tok and I’m pretty tired, cants someone else go and do it?
I’m not saying they shouldn’t vote. I’m saying that’s what will happen if Biden doesn’t intervene in Gaza, or at least stop supporting Israel.
The people that care most about this were never going to vote in general. And with a significant majority of the population supporting Israel, there’s not really any option for candidates against it either.
And again, given that the majority of the population supports Israel, someone like Trump and Biden are going to be equivalent on the issue.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll
2/3 of Americans in that say the US should publicly support Israel.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/19/politics/polling-israel-hamas-biden/index.html
Only 13% say their sympathies lie with Palestinians in the war.
It’s really only Arab Americans that support Palestine over Israel. And more Arab Americans identify as Republican and would vote for Trump who is even more pro Israel and anti Palestinian. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/arab-american-support-biden-democrats-plummets-over-israel-poll-2023-10-31/
The people that care most about this were never going to vote in general.
Not necessarily. People aged 18-24 had a voter turnout of about 48% the last election.
And with a significant majority of the population supporting Israel, there’s not really any option for candidates against it either.
The population includes republicans who aren’t gonna vote for Biden anyway. According to the Guardian:
Gallup has been tracking the gradual downward shift in sympathy toward Israel among Democrats that started in about 2014. In February, for the first time, Democrats’ sympathies for the Palestinians were higher than for the Israelis, 49% to 38%.
I’m sure they don’t, but they’re saying Biden’s decisions will make them not vote for him
And not voting is just selfish. Trump’s policies would kill more Palestinians, and we’d go decades back on climate change. The purity of one’s ideals isn’t worth more than that.
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No but I think it would be consolation to the children who are alive but would be torn apart by direct American artillery under Trump.
I have no love for Israel. Sorry to break it to you, but people who disagree with you on something aren’t automatically devout supporters of the IDF. Someone can be “on your side” and still disagree with you because you’re an asshole.
Also you’re literally opposing the choice that leads to fewer Palestinians dying.
If Gaza is your single issue in '24 there’s NOBODY to vote for.
There’s definitely someone to vote against, though.
White House doesn’t get our soldiers on the ground and is only there to make sure this doesn’t explode into something bigger.
It also was successful (unfortunately not always) in persuading Israel into some relief to civilians.
Trump essentially lit a fuse for this conflict: https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-partly-blame-situation-israel-opinion-1833933
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It also was successful (unfortunately not always) in persuading Israel into some relief to civilians.
I mean the US is giving so much to Israel that they shouldn’t be persuading, they should be demanding it. Even Reagan did it.
If Gaza is your single issue in '24 there’s NOBODY to vote for.
so about that…
Trump won’t even be on the ballot in several states.
That’s the HOPE, but it hasn’t been decided yet.
He will be the Republican nominee and as such there will be a push that the rules do not apply to him.
Alternately they will attempt to get Biden removed in the same states because “reasons”.
There is a firm belief that if nobody gets to 270, they win because the President would be decided in the House, one vote per state, and there are more red states than blue states.
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Suddenly, climate change isn’t so much of an urgent issue? Nor abortion? Nor gay rights?
I’m not happy with what’s going on nor what Biden’s doing, but there’s too many people I care about who will get hurt if Trump wins. And I’m not so selfish as to keep my ideals pure.
Life sucks. If you don’t vote for Biden, more Palestinians will die than would otherwise. Is that fucked up? Yeah. Vote for him anyway. The world is cruel, and gives us cruel choices. All we can do is make the best of things.
TBF while not voting for Biden is a very bad move, I can understand making a literal genocide your single issue.
Are people expecting Trump to have handled this situation any better?
The dude systematically kisses up autocratic strongmen and people expect him to have a balanced, mediating, tempering approach to this situation?
Nope, but there are people who will just not vote. I’m not saying it’s right, but Biden’s willingness to be accomplice to genocide is damaging many people’s faith in the democratic process. Hopefully they vote for Bernie in the primaries instead of just being mad about it on the internet.
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bernie is a bastard who supports the genocide,
What? He’s what of the few US senators who demanded the US push for a ceasefire.
He literally stated just yesterday that he doesn’t believe a ceasefire is possible with “Hamas”.
You should read the whole thing.
Edit: He also said this:
“The immediate task right now is to end the bombing,” Sanders said Sunday, “to end the horrific humanitarian disaster, to build – go forward with the entire world for a two-tier, two-state solution to the crisis to give the Palestinian people hope.”
Saying you doubt one will happen isn’t the same as saying you don’t want one to happen.
Source? Last video I watched he was giving the “I don’t see the point of a ceasefire” line.
Don’t confuse “humanitarian pause” with “ceasefire”, they’re completely different - “humanitarian pause” means a few hours/days off, and then starting it right back up.
He said he can’t see a permanent ceasefire holding up with Hamas, not that he doesn’t see the point of a ceasefire. He said this later:
“The immediate task right now is to end the bombing,” Sanders said Sunday, “to end the horrific humanitarian disaster, to build – go forward with the entire world for a two-tier, two-state solution to the crisis to give the Palestinian people hope.”
No, but the choice is hastening the inevitable collapse of the failed american state.
or desperately spending years panicking and frantically adding seconds to the slowly ticking detonator.
and I can understand why people are getting sick of the second one and just saying fuck it and embrace chaos and the end.
and I can understand why people are getting sick of the second one and just saying fuck it and embrace chaos and the end.
This is a juvenile view.
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Good thing that’s not what I said.
Or the democrats could listen to voters and run a better candidate???
The Democrats did listen to the voters, that’s what the primary process was, Biden won the most votes.
You obviously weren’t paying attention in the last few primaries if you think voters have a voice in that process.
Whatever you are referring to, could be avoided if there was more people voting primaries and local elections. Twice as many people voted for Biden than for Sanders and Warren combined, and the combined number of votes was about 30 mil. In contrast, 80 mil voted dem in generals. 50 million people ignored primaries.
Do you wanna talk about super delegates and how they were “casting” their votes early in order to shape game theory voting? Is that how democracy is supposed to work in your mind?
No, I don’t really want to talk about it, because we were talking about how 50 million people just straight up didn’t show up. When two thirds of your voting base just have no idea how the system works and don’t do bare minimum to participate, all that stuff you’re talking about is irrelevant. If people participate, it gets way harder to do all the tricks. So, I guess, the simplest of the tricks is to convince everyone that the system doesn’t work and they should just sit at home since it’s rigged anyway.
You don’t even understand that the number of voters doesn’t matter when delegate numbers don’t change, it the same thing as the electoral college.
But you don’t want to talk about that for some reason?
Y’all will throw any excuse in the book before you admit you didn’t turn out for him.
You think a person commenting in a political thread is the issue? The issue is the people so disillusioned from the lack of representation that they have completely checked out. You’re part of the problem if you then blame them for their apathy instead of understanding why it’s there in the first place. You can’t address an issue if you fail to acknowledge the problem.
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They did, Hillary won the most votes because y’all didn’t turn out even for the guy you want us to believe you supported so much.
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Well we definitely tried it your way and didn’t get any of that shit now did we?
Or how about, “even if she wouldn’t have given us those things, she definitely wouldn’t have given us the Dobbs court you stuck up privileged whitesplaining twat.”
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Isn’t he the President now ? He should do something about the Palestinian deaths now .
You’re missing the point. Do you think a president with an R next to their name would be any less of a bloodthirsty moron? So now it’s not only “they’re bombing Palestine” but also all the other human rights violating shit that happens under a Republican president here at home.
Yes Biden should stop absolutely supporting the genocide, but threatening to replace him with literally the same plus LGBTQ+ discrimination, immigration fear mongering, more destruction of reproductive rights, etc. is certainly not a sane reaction.
That’s a pretty good reason why he can’t literally do something right this fucking minute.
You’re so focused on the future, you’re not dealing with the present. It’s not difficult to the right thing.
If it’s so not difficult then why are you fighting so hard to not acknowledge what’ll happen if he loses?
I can’t see the future. Biden might expire. Trump may not be the nominee. The future is uncertain. But the war is happening now.
And my rights are on the line right now too. What sort of privilege you on when a Palestinian American here in the US has to explain to you why the guy who thinks all Arabs should be deported should be voted against.
You are bordering on bullying and intimidation. Leave me alone.
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The only answer that democrats have: “Who else are you going to vote for – Trump? 😏”
This is why the US will inevitably slide into fascism. You’ve got a party of fascists and then another party that helps out fascists in a number of ways: https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
Democrats like to position themselves as “the thin blue line” that separates civil society from a fascist hellhole, but just like “the thin blue line” known as the police, they’ve got fascist tendencies if they’re not simply full-blown fascists. To think that this is called a democracy.
That’s a bingo. I was elated when I had that realization, but also sad that there was nothing we can do about it. It’s what leads me to accelerationist tendencies, that I struggle with. It’s a facet of the ratchet effect in the 2 party system. But when you explain this to people you are called a pessimist and defeatist. It’s reality. On the bright side, after fascism comes a “golden” period, but climate change will limit its possibilities.
On the bright side, after fascism comes a “golden” period
I’m not so sure about that, there are plenty of countries that have been dictatorships for generations. Modern developments in weapons technology and surveillance also gives the governments of today, and tomorrow, a lot more alternatives to suppress a population than in the past.
I’m trying to be optimistic. Trying being the key word.
To your point about the US slide into fascism, thats why I think that this election is very very very important. Imagine what a post-second-term Trump presidential race would look like for a second. Trump is winning as the strong man. You think Dems would counter with someone reasonable? No. Both parties are putting up new people. And guess what? Neither are good and both are populists and both are young and hungry for power. I don’t need to tell everyone that someone like DeSantis would be absolutely insane, but I will. That’s the up and coming from republicans. That’s who sits behind trump next.
I have good news though. The house of cards that republicans are playing is obvious. It can and I’d say probably will crash if trump loses. If he loses, there is zero reason to pay him attention. Literally ignore him, doesn’t matter. Don’t have to follow his orders.
And trump is a fascist that will actually kill the platform itself in my view. I think he could topple the whole tower back down to where republicans can’t agree with each other. He also has the power to split the party.
Basically, the longer that the republicans fail or split, that’s when you’ll get to know the democrats better.
I’d love nothing more than for the republican party to slide into complete irrelevance, but I heard the same thing after Bush’s two disastrous terms culminating in a once-in-a-lifetime financial crisis and after Mitt Romney lost, people were saying that republicans are having a demographic crisis and that they’re at risk of never winning another election. The problem is that democrats themselves have said they don’t want this:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/joe-biden-america-needs-the-republican-party.html
https://www.newsweek.com/nancy-pelosi-says-us-needs-strong-republican-party-1779854
Both Biden and Pelosi said that the country needs the republican party. When was the last time the republican party wasn’t horrible? Just like how whenever democrats get a majority, the exact number of senators turn heel to prevent anything progressive from moving forward, I’m sure democrats will find a way to keep the republican party relevant.
It’s entirely possible that democrats will try to hold together what’s left of the Republican Party after 2024. Let me state some points first: -Trump is a massive populist, he has created new issues for voters and completely skewed the stance of the party -Trump also has demanded loyalty from congress. He has people in power who are far far far more dedicated to him than the party -It is unlikely that whatever happens in 2024 will be uneventful. Be it jail, re-election, whatever.
That all being said, Bush was incompetent and this road is long but yes the republicans have been losing for awhile now. They are unpopular and have arguably lost the majority of the vote for 30 years. Their issues are failing them. Their leader is morally bankrupt.
Another big reason is demographics. Their demographics have been aged older and older with time. But instead of fluctuations or slow decline, we’re seeing massive unpopularity with younger crowds.
This makes it very hard to pivot. They don’t have many ways to appeal to young voters without losing their older base. They lost themselves entirely over trump in 2016 and in 2020. Senators who didn’t support trump lost their support. So it’s clear that a lot of the future of the party hinges on trump winning 2024. And I view that as unlikely.
There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. To cut off your nose in spite of your face is not the path forward. I want more support for the Palestinians but you also got extreme radicals that are protesting for Palestinian freedom and to establish a caliphate like in Germany. The other side of this conflict is so fragmented my arguments for human rights gets drowned out by religious extremists on both sides. This war didn’t start this year, it started decades ago. Where were all the SJWs then?
I wish it was simply a matter of “it’s not perfect” but the problem is actually “it’s not a democracy”. Just take a look at the approval rate of congress: https://news.gallup.com/poll/513410/congress-job-approval-drops-lowest-2017.aspx We’re supposedly in a representative democracy but the representatives have an approval rating of 13%. Tell me how that makes sense.
You’re right, the war didn’t start this year, as Israel has been committing human rights violations and taking more and more Palestinian land for decades. Support for Palestine has only increased as more people have seen the truth and I attribute part of that to social media and the ability to share another side of the story (complete with recorded video, thanks to phones) instead of the narrative being dominated by large mainstream media outlets.
We’re supposedly in a representative democracy but the representatives have an approval rating of 13%. Tell me how that makes sense.
Not trying to justify things as they stand, but an impprtant caveat is that’s for Congress as a whole. Ask people how they feel about their rep and you get much different numbers. Basically, everyone else is the problem.
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You can laugh, but his approval rating is 37% a year before the election.
Even if Gallup’s declined over the last few years, he’s not doing much better on Fivethirtyeight or Rasmussen.
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Nobody is saying this.
People should vote for Biden over the other guy because the other guy is the worst.
But Biden and his team are fucking morons if they believe funding a genocide won’t cost them any votes. Democratic voters aren’t in a cult, don’t expect 100% of them to fall in line when their president doing extremely unpopular things.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Support Gaza, you lose the Jewish vote, and that might be something that could actually hand victories to the Republicans.
How about you oppose the genocide of 2 million people for the fact that genocide is bad rather than caring about the impact on voters??
That is not at all what I am saying. I absolutely think what Israel is doing in Gaza is terrible.
Now this might just be me talking at a wall at this point, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, my earlier comment is just me speaking pragmatically. I disagree with the premise of the article, that Biden will lose the election to Trump or whichever other Republican candidate is nominated due to his stance on Palestine, for a couple reasons.
First is that the Republicans are no more likely to support Palestine than the Democrats. In fact, I’d argue the opposite is true. I see the situation only escalating further with how overtly anti-Muslim the majority of Republicans are.
Second is the idea that choosing not to support Palestine is going to cost more voters than it gains. The US is deeply divided on this issue, but the fact of the matter is that there are more people taking Israel’s side in the US than Palestine’s. It is likelier that Republicans would gain more votes from Biden siding with Palestine than Biden is losing by siding with Israel.
If this article is contributing to a narrative that more people should vote for Trump over Biden because of Biden’s lack of support towards Palestine, and if that causes Trump to win, then all hope of a future for Palestine is truly lost.
Support Gaza, you lose the Jewish vote
Support
Gazacivilians, you lose theJewishgenocide supporter voteFTFY
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And do what, vote for Republicans? If you really cared about genocide the Democrats are the only party that have a ceasefire now caucus the USA. The squad has been great.
Not any great options next November. I just want others to focus on blaming leaders because Americans get in a bad habit of blaming voters when time and again it’s the leaders doing stuff the voters never asked for.
I’m saying this
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If everything else that directly threatened their futures and lives didn’t get them out to vote, surely this wouldn’t. I hope they do, but if the youth only shows up to vote for non-Americans futures instead of their own, it’d be the saddest shit ever.
If it is Trump vs. Biden again in 2024, America will have gone 12 years without having someone under the age of retirement on the general ballot. Clinton, Bush, and Trump were all born the same year, with Biden being born 2 years before the three. Of course they all see Palestinians as terrorists, Cubans as rulled by Castro, socialists as Russia supporters, and drugs use as reefer mandness.
Obama was a breath of fresh air because he was finally from a generation that was passed all that. Why can’t we find someone else from the next generation to run against Biden in the primary?
I don’t think it’s just a matter of age. Plenty of old people don’t support genocide or fascism.
And Obama isn’t a point in favor of that, because he also kept arming Israel, exercising PATRIOT Act powers, kept up all the U.S.'s wars as long as possible, and killing people by the thousands with drone strikes.
We have a problem with authoritarianism. Call it like it is. The 30-50 year old representatives support it, the 70 year old representatives support it.
Clinton, Bush, and Trump were all born the same year, with Biden being born 2 years before the three.
Actually, 4 years (1942 vs. 1946)
Why can’t we find someone else from the next generation to run against Biden in the primary?
For what it’s worth, California Gov. Gavin Newsom is running a not-so-subtle shadow campaign.
Newsom is somehow the worst potential president out of all the names in your comment
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Y’all say this like you’re ever going to find a 100% perfect candidate. Grow up.
At least that is a new moral quandary with new technology. The guy after Obama heard that the Chinese were pointing microwave beams at the White House windows measuring vibrations caused by sound in the rooms - and then turned around and said the Chinese are hiding microphones in his microwave oven.
I don’t see how killing a ton of people/civilians with new weapons represents a significantly new moral question.
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Let’s get real here.
Biden’s poll numbers aren’t looking great at the moment. If any significant number of people that otherwise would have been Biden voters sit out the election, Biden loses. It doesn’t even have to be voters that had previously voted for him voting for Trump (which is unlikely, since Trump strongly supports Israel’s genocidal ambitions as well). They just have to… Not show up.
And yeah, a Biden loss would be far worse for the country–and for Palestinians, and for Ukranians–than a Biden win. But voters that feel ignored aren’t likely to care; after all, if you don’t feel like the president gives a shit about your views, then does it really matter which of the two shitty choices wins?
To be clear - I’m pissed at Dems. I’m angry that Biden isn’t being a lot more forceful about climate change, that he isn’t take a take-no-prisoners approach to Republicans’ nonsense over the budget, that he’s caving in to Israel, that he’s not sending Ukrain the weapons they need to drive Russia into the Pacific, and so much more. And yet, shit gets worse a lot faster under Trump. We need to turn around; Biden is gently tapping the brakes, and Trump would put a brick on the gas pedal.
2024 will basically be a race between a cult leader who deserves to be if they aren’t already in jail, and Biden. If you are in the cult, you live in a one party state, if you are out of the cult, you live in a one party state. I see young activists getting screwed either way.
It’s a vote for democracy or not and it’s pretty much at the platform level not just the president. Any GOP majority in either chamber wiill either block democracy or if Trump is the president help dismantle democracy. Same at the state level for the most part.
Don’t forget to vote November 7. I’m tired of hearing about book bannings, PragerU getting to our schools, and other hate based policies at the state and town levels.
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This is “they’re all the same” bullshit that some groups use to dissuade you from comparing and deciding on your own. That, and it’s just ageist rhetoric, ignoring Trump is nearly just as old
Don’t listen to this shit. Look at what they say AND what they do, in total. Single issue, lazy, dogmatic thinking is how we got into this sorry state to begin with.
It really isn’t, it’s just criticizing the lack of choice. Unfortunately, people like you are ignorant enough to believe there aren’t better forms of democracy whereas in Europe there are no shortage of countries where you can vote an actual choice of parties and not throw your vote away because of simple majority rules.
Both parties aren’t the same (the use of the word cult should have been a big hint), but you’d have to be a special kind of fool to be praising the lack of choice you have. The world is bigger than your ignorance.
Ageist rhetoric, that’s just your gaslighting, I never brought it up, nor do I se anyone other than you gaslight with it. You are basically regurgitating political propaganda that isn’t even relevant to the comment…
You are free to pat yourself for your lack of choice. If single issue, lazy, dogmatic, thinking is how you got into this sorry state to begin with, then why are you perpetuating it?
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Well put. One Party State would make a great band name. Also, I’m on Sudafed and NyQuil.
Wrong way, down a one-way road! 🎶
Who exactly is he going to lose to? Not like any other candidate is opposed to war with Palestine.
The problem won’t be people voting for republicans instead of Biden, but people choosing not to vote.
So business as usual? Less than 50% turnout (2021) and that’s a sizeable increase from 39% (2016) of voters aged 18-29.
Well, we know who won in 2016. If we’re back to those numbers, or maybe even below those numbers, that seems like a bit of a problem to me.
Can you blame them? People only voted for Biden in 2020 because he wasn’t Trump. If the DNC can’t even present another inspiring candidate, we should maybe consider being frustrated with the party itself and not take our anger out on everyone else.
It’s tough. A 2-party system where one party wants to end democracy feels like it’s already not much of a democracy at all. I can understand the frustration of having to vote the mediocre technocrat as “the lesser evil” each election. On the other hand, the prospect of a second Trump presidency is horrifying and would be a disaster for far more countries than just the US, so I’d still vote for Biden every time if I could.
It should scare you as it does me. Democrats strategy of people voting cause they’re scared but not inspired is dumb and won’t last forever.
Please vote Not Trump again. I can’t deal with another 5 years of seeing that twat in the headlines unless he is having his fraudulent businesses dismantled and being sent to jail in those headlines.
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Fucking right?! As much as Biden sucks, the alternative is soooooo much fucking worse for the Palestinian people, there is no telling what the US response would have been if 45 was still in office. Mfs forgot so fast how 45 wanted a straight up Muslim ban, and now Republicans are trying to expel Palestinian visas in the US. Shit would be 10x worse if the Republicans were in control of the executive branch.
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Agree or lose - demographic least likely to vote
If we want to be taken seriously, we need to bring a serious amount of people to the game. We need some fucking Polish energy if we expect to bring this country around
I mean TBF almost 50% of people aged 18-24 voted in 2020. If even 10% of those people don’t vote for Biden because he was complicit in genocide he’s fucked.
Biden will be alright. Who would be fucked is US.
I mean there is statistical evidence that Trump causes a spike in hate crimes. Not surprising to anyone but then think about this inevitability when you are deciding whether or not to vote.
I 100% believe you but still have to ask. Source?
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The entire US is complicit. Tell me what have you done besides talk on the internet. I remember going to protests in the 90s, when there seemed to be a chance for peace. But the Israelis were lying about their intentions and they just had to wait for their little experiment to take effect and destroy all chances. I want this war to end but not with us engaging in the middle east ever again.
Tell me what have you done besides talk on the internet.
Well I do wanna go to protests and stuff but I don’t live in the US.
Well these protests are happening around the world, the issue is they are being co-opted by extremists and facists. Every one wants immediate action but for different purposes. This issue is and will always be a landmine. I truly want a more progressive social democrat as my leader but the US is screwed as long as they have an electoral college that voted for the people.
Love this comment. Young people have to save the world, as it has always been. Yet the powers that be do everything possible to discourage them from utilizing the incredible power that they have.
Bit of a dead end for that energy now though. There were two bites at the apple wither Bernie Sanders, which illustrated the DNC will pill out stops to keep party loyals. So what’s left for a mobilized progressive movement? Cant fight in the party, cant fight outside the party.
Bernie proved that the most vocal pussies online won’t actually show up when it matters. The DNC didn’t have to pull out any stops when single digits of eligible voters in the 18-29 group bothered to actually show up.
Stop with the Bernie Sanders crocodile tears. Are you just going to ignore what HE says to do? Because I’m pretty sure he says vote against the orange reincarnation of Adolf.
Please. Just let the empire fall
I’d rather us decline in stature instead of collapse into a fascist dictatorship. Idk, I just have people I care about, y’know?
So if he doesn’t change course on Gaza they’re going to…vote for Trump? Sure.
Or not vote.
Not voting is allowing Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, et al to win. Because they are the primary players in fomenting hatred via social media. Any American that does not realize that many many countries in the world want us to epically fail is just fucking ignorant. It’s very justified in many instances but it’s still the reality. And allowing our enemies to win is total BS.
I agree and will vote for Biden, but I also understand why some choose not to vote or vote third party. America did this to itself with the electoral college and the two party system. We shouldn’t have to choose between allowing genocide or committing genocide. Those choices are unacceptable.
No, they’re going to not vote for either. Which should be concerning to anyone wanting to keep Trump out of office.
Then we get what we deserve. Which, frankly, the rest of the world wants. That’s why they’re all spending tremendous resources filtering and skewing social media to foment hatred.
If they don’t care about gay people or abortion, perhaps it’s best they don’t vote.
And make no mistake. Choosing not to vote is choosing to say you don’t care what happens to gay people or abortion.
Aren’t young Democrats the lowest turnout group in nearly every state in every election? I’ll double check the numbers when I get home, but from memory that was the case.
I can see the onion headline already.
“Non-voters threaten not to vote if Biden doesn’t do what they want”
Yeah, I remember an article from 2016, they were interviewing a college kid and asked who he supported, he said he supported Bernie Sanders. When asked how he felt about Bernie losing the primary he said he felt guilty because he had forgotten to vote.
You seem to forget when Trump won in 2016 because the DNC didn’t listen to their base.
Yeah that base that never turned out and acted like they were part of the party.
You know why they call the Uber right wing the Republican base? Because they’re the group that turn out the most.
Millennials and Zoomers underperform their own share of the population in the primary, which is fucking pathetic since they ought to be way overperforming that given their overwhelming lean against Republican politics.
You know why the Uber right turns out the most? Because they believe that if they don’t that we’ll abduct their children and turn them into an adrenochrome harvesting factory while worshiping Moloch. You know why Millennials and Zoomers stay home? Because their own party has made it obvious that they care more about corporations, than whether they’ll ever have a fucking place to live safely. So if you want Millennials and Zoomers to show up then give them something to show up for.
If the protection of queer women’s and PoC rights aren’t enough for you to shut up and turn out no matter how corporate you feel the party is then you’re in no position to say jack shit when Women Queer folks and PoC tell you to shut up and fall the fuck in line to use that white straight privilege you obviously are rocking to act like they’re oh so the same to get the rest of us to where corporate fuckery is the only thing we have on our plates.
You know why the Uber right turn out every time, because they believe all that shit, you know why millennials and Zoomers don’t? Because knowing the truth of what the right will do with the power they’re handing them some the fuck how ain’t enough for them to pony up to the onerous Herculean task of spending a day at most waiting in line to fill out a few forms.
You entitled fucks will fight bite kick and scream like toddlers rather than check a box. You want to perform allyship while fighting with everything you have to whitesplain to us why we shouldn’t expect you to do any of the actual damn work of being an ally. You’re making demands of us for you to do literally the bare minimum, you march and protest and say all the pretty words and then act like that amounts to anything next to a ballot to protect our rights.
How about instead of demands, you tell us why we don’t have the right to bind gag and drag you by the feet to the polling station and leave you there to rot if that’s what it’ll take to make you do even the first act of actual allyship. Why you deserve to show up at protests and public meetings like your word is worth anything but being laughed out for the faker you are. Why we shouldn’t consider you an active collaborator for having the fucking gall to not consider “THEY ARE LITERALLY FASCISTS OUT TO KILL US” all the reason you need to shut up and listen to what we’re telling you.
Y’all love to quote MLK on the white moderate all the time as if he wasn’t talking about y’all with your performative ass nonsense. All the words claiming you support the advancement of civil rights with NONE of the action.
Sit down. Shut up. And stay sat down and shut up till you come back to this convo with your “I voted” sticker to prove you ain’t just Ally-Facing.
shut up and fall the fuck in line
How about instead of demands, you tell us why we don’t have the right to bind gag and drag you by the feet to the polling station and leave you there to rot
Sit down. Shut up. And stay sat down and shut up
When the people pretending to be anti-fascists are the fascists
Literally can’t believe this. It’s just another instance of a few loudmouths shooting off making empty threats. “Young activists” aren’t going to swing anything and “polls” don’t mean shit. 24 is an easy choice because it’s the same one as 20, we’ve got dumb and dumber but dumber is now an unhinged fascist so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah the comfortable Democratic Party position of telling its voters what they have to support because the GOP exists.
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