That’s not worldnews. US farms wouldn’t be legal in EU. Most EU farms wouldn’t be legal here (Swiss). California is not the world.
The US is the 2nd largest milk producer on the planet…and that’s only IF you count the EU as a single entity. Otherwise, it’s 1st. Also, the largest economy on the planet. Things that happen in America matter elsewhere.
It might be the 2nd largest milk producing country, but they couldn’t sell the milk in the EU due to the unethical and unhygienic way it’s produced. That’s OP’s point
While that may be true, the title and article act as if the US is the world, as if “the most humane dairy farms” in the US are the most humane dairy farms in the world, which is clearly not even remotely close to the truth.
Cows need to be pregnant to produce milk so dairy cows are artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives.
They don’t tell you this in school.
Not only that but the calves would require a large percentage of that milk, and so a byproduct of dairy farms is often veal, at least for the male calves.
It’s obvious but blew my mind when I was told that
Then after only 4-5 years of this they are slaughtered because the milk production begins to diminish.
…milk isn’t even necessary for us after we are no longer toddlers…wtf? I know it’s necessary for desserts but are people really drinking milk voluntarily in their daily lives as adults or teenagers?
Yeah who needs checks notes. The cheapest source of great macro vitamins in the store???
You fucking anti milk clowns are so fucking stupid.
Milk is a super food that is only supplanted IMHO by kefir. That shit is incredible.
I get both my whole milk and kefir from local farms. One is in town, and the other is only about 15 miles away. It’s the freshest, most delicious milk I’ve ever had and I can hardly stomach the store bought stuff anymore.
Archive link because paywall
I haven’t seen any mentions of soy milk in this thread. I have it unsweetened with some fruit Müsli and even in coffee/tea and I’m good to go
Also it’s way thicker than oat and almond milk.
And contains more protein. Generally I’d say the best option, no clue why people are so hung up on oat specifically.
My personal opinion is that soy milk tastes like grass… I’ve tried it in coffee, alone, on cereal, but I just can’t avoid feeling like someone dumped a handful of freshly cut grass in…
Almond is pretty good on it’s own, but in coffee it tastes like marzipan… It’s not bad, but not the taste I want in my coffee.
Oat is what tastes most like cow’s milk to me.
Humane meat and dairy is yuppie bullshit.
Why is it bullshit to not want your food to cause unnecessary suffering? If I have the choice of eating a burger from a cow that suffered it’s whole life or one that was treated well, why would I not choose less suffering?
Oh! You’re one of those who things we should all be vegan…not gonna happen for so so many reasons, so why not compromise and reduce suffering in the world?
Life eats life, that’s how it works. Organisms evolved to eat meat are not inherently inhumane for following their biological imperative. Our factory farming system IS inhumane in that it causes unnecessary suffering, but that’s a result of the scale of operations and our economic system.
The acidity of our stomach alone is clear evidence we are evolved to eat meat, combine that with our need for B12, our teeth, length of intestines relative to other herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores puts the nail in the coffin for the idea that we are not meant to eat meat.
The acidity of our stomach alone is clear evidence we are evolved to eat meat, combine that with our need for B12, our teeth, length of intestines relative to other herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores puts the nail in the coffin for the idea that we are not meant to eat meat.
You wear shoes, statistically you probably wear glasses or contacts, all of us have back problems as we ags the idea that we should do what our body evolved to is honestly kinda ludicrous. I mean heck, we are talking through wifi, wires and electricity. We both drive a car to get food through major distribution chains. Nothing in our lives is natural.
Take some damn b12 supplements, the overwhelming majority of people, vegans and carnist alike, have a deficiency anyways.
Life eats life, that’s how it works.
Yeah, but beans don’t have a brain, nerve endings or a nervous system. Sure they are alive, but it’s intellectual dishonest to think that a pigs and beans interact with the world in the same way. So yes, life eats life, but my life sustaining food doesn’t feel pain. It has for over a decade now.
Like, I feel you should read the article? The idea that you can kill something ethically is cognitive dissonance.
Yeah, but beans don’t have a brain, nerve endings or a nervous system. Sure they are alive, but it’s intellectual dishonest to think that a pigs and beans interact with the world in the same way. So yes, life eats life, but my life sustaining food doesn’t feel pain. It has for over a decade now.
Ever heard of these things called “cats”? They eat things with brains and nerve endings.
Tell me friend, do you also 💩 in a box?
Cats have no sense of morality, civilization, empathy, or agriculture. Our understanding of the world is greater and thus so is our responsibility to act more intelligently. I can’t have a discussion with a cat, but you aren’t a cat so it’s asinine to use them as a metric on rational behavior.
Our understanding of the world is greater and thus so is our responsibility to act more intelligently
Agree, I just don’t think expecting all or even most of the human population to become vegan is a practical reality in the near future, so let’s try to reduce suffering in ways that are more likely to happen such as consuming fewer animal products and being less cruel when we do. For those that are willing and able to be vegan that’s great, but humans driven to eat meat and without extremely strict enforcement global veganism is a fantasy. That’s like expecting the world to go without sex, reasons don’t matter, not gonna happen.
but humans driven to eat meat and without extremely strict enforcement global veganism is a fantasy.
I never said anything of the sort. Right from the start you’ve assumed a lot about me, I left a one sentance reply to an article I agreed with and you’ve built a straw version of me to argue with your over the top talking points. Stop putting words in my mouth because I agree that it’s not realistic of feasebile for humanity to go off meat in either of our lifetimes.
What I am saying is that calling meat “humane” is an inherent contradiction and just a marketing term so people can feel better about their choice to eat meat. Just as “free range” or “cage free” chickens absolutely still live their lives in appaling conditions. It’s whitewashing away treating life as a commodity.
Which is yuppie bullshit.
Internet vegans need to stop telling me to be unhealthy and go all in on fucking up the dairy industry. The average person can see it’s horrific, how hard could it be to get a big fucking win without getting normal people offside?
I don’t understand your comment. Not vegan here but I try to eat vegan most of the time. I think just trying to consume less is already a huge deal.
I’m saying attacking the dairy industry is a winnable battle and a step in the right direction but vegans are operating on pure emotion, it’s all or nothing for them and I think we all know which it currently is.
So you wanna just torture animals a little bit?
You’re the exact problem I’m talking about. Nothing is ever good enough.
dead before it hits the ground is a lot better than ground up alive in a combine harvester that’s for sure.
or, you know, the fucking dairy farms we’re talking about in this thread.
Not trynna be the token vegan/health nut - just wanted to share:
I fuck with oatmilk- it’s pretty fuckin good for what it is and it’s bomb in some cereal. Don’t gotta cut out milk but maybe instead of 2 gallons you do one of each or somethin idk
Personally I prefer soy milk since it generally requires the least resources and also has the highest amount of bioavailable protein.
Oat is pretty good though.
I didn’t like soy milk at all when I was younger (like a teenager). It had a weird aftertaste and texture. I don’t know if it has changed since then or not, but now I also find it generally the tastiest.
I also use organic soy milk (since it is usually the only type that doesn’t have gums or other ingredients…just soybeans and water) to make really simple plain yogurt too. I just break open a probiotic capsule or two into a 1qt tetrapak bottle, shake it up really good, divy up into 1c mason jars, and run the Instant Pot Yogurt setting for 15-16 hours.
That yogurt gets made into parfaits or overnight oats (with some date syrup if I can’t find it…or just maple syrup to sweeten). Sometimes I’ll even make a really good soft serve frozen yogurt (mix 1 part sugar to 4 parts yogurt, freeze 6+ hours, put it in a good blender, add fruit or vanilla or cocoa (or all!) as desired.
Mmm I sorta agree with you but soy milk and soy plantations in general (or whatever the proper name is for a farm of soybeans) definitely contribute to deforestation it takes a lot of land to turn out enough product
Here’s a quick mention in a posting I found - I’m sure there are some studies out there if you’re interested
https://bastyr.edu/about/news/which-milk-alternative-most-eco-friendly
The deforestation is to grow soy to feed cows to make milk and beef.
Kinda frustrating when the environmental alternative to dairy milk…is being planted in the former Amazon Rainforest to make dairy milk.
almost all soy, including what is grown in the region formerly occupied by the amazon, is pressed for oil for human use, only about 7% of it is fed directly to animals. after processing the soy forhuman use, the waste product is what is given to animals, and cows get only a fraction of the soy. most of the soy fed to animals goes to poultry and swine.
That’s off by an order of magnitude. It’s not 7%, it’s 77%
But, only a small percentage of global soy is used for these products. More than three-quarters (77%) of soy is used as feed for livestock.
https://ourworldindata.org/soy#more-than-three-quarters-of-global-soy-is-fed-to-animals
When we look at the most common extraction method for soybean oil (using hexane solvents), soybean meal for animal feed (not oil) is the driver of demand
However, soybean meal is the main driving force for soybean oil production due to its significant amount of productivity and revenues
[…]
soybean meal and hulls contribute to over 60% of total revenues, with meal taking the largest portion of over 59% of total revenue
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0926669017305010
This is even more true of other methods like expelling which is still somewhat commonly used
Moreover, soybean meal is the driving force for the whole process [expelling oil from soy] because it provides over 70% of the total revenue for soy processing by expelling
i’m so glad you found the OWID link. do you see how the chart shows the vast majority of what is fed to animals is called “soy meal” or “soy cake”? that’s the byproduct of pressing soybeans for oil. they literally eat our industrial waste. down at the bottom of the chart you can see the 7% that is fed directly to animals
Byproduct that accounts for the majority of the revenue? That’s hardly a byproduct?
7%, is feeding of entire soybeans
Actually trying to be the climate resistance nut here, we’re paying to ship water.
Buy the oats and make your own.
Actually I never thought about it, but it makes total sense. Is it simple? Could you share your recipe?
if you search for oat milk recipes you’ll be exactly where I am right now
I did a quick search on my trusty DuckDuckGo, but all I could find was “blend oats for 30-60 seconds”, and a lot of disclaimers.
I would assume for a good tasting recipe you should add a little bit of sugar, maybe you have some recommendations about the oats that you use. Can you store it for a few days? Idk, you most likely have more experience on the subject.
If it takes longer than 5 minutes to prepare (also including the cleanup process) I can see why people would rather consume a pre-made product.
Anyways it’s worth to try, if you have a specific recommendation I would appreciate it greatly. Otherwise I will go for one of the recipes I can find.
YouTube?
I find it kinda rude when people do this tbh - were trying to add and share content here, not pump up google and other places.
Imagine telling someone you’d like to hear what they like to do or don’t do and they tell you to google it…
Just thought I’d share
Dude this bugs me so much. More so when it’s in a personal conversation, and the person says idk Google it. Particularly if it’s something they’re clearly interested in. I’m not looking for the information as much as I am the dialogue.
i went vegetarian a few months ago and ive been losing weight and muscle like crazy. i haven’t figured out how to maintain it. everything tastes good though
Adjust your diet. Add pea or soy protein powder if you need to and make sure you’re eating a lot of beans and tofu and tempeh. Most likely losing muscle is due to protein deficiency so that’s your answer.
i am still downing multiple whey protein shakes with cows milk. i haven’t even gone non-dairy yet
Oh well then keep doing that unless the article got to you and you want to eliminate dairy lol
i would like to. I am working out one variable at a time
It’s really tough. There’s a lot we’re still learning about the gut and nutrient absorption- but as long as we protect science, we can expect improvements.
The work with gene editing and growing meats and whatnot has been a long time coming - stay optimistic, stay curious! ❤️
The fact that people are waving this hard for oatmilk, shows me that there must be a genetical component of people, who can’t taste certain elements of oatmilk. For me it it tastes watery, like even below 1,5% fat and it smells unpleasant, with a subtile kind of moldy/rotten in it. I drink about a liter of milk every day and I would not want that even in my coffee, let alone pure or in my cornflakes.
This shouldn’t mean people shouldn’t try or even like oatmilk, but it’s no replacement for me, not even close.
Drinking a litre of milk every day can’t be healthy. It causes osteoporosis and can raise your cholesterol levels.
https://iphysio.io/osteoporosis/
Do as you want but for everyone reading this thread, I thought it was a good resource to add. And also keep in mind, the animal agriculture lobby is huge and they publish biased counter studies with questionable methods.
The osteoporosis thing has mostly be debunked. It’s old women who can be effected by it, most everyone else isn’t. Of course living vegan can be healthier if you get your blood levels checked regularly and take supplements, but most of the food tastes worse too. It depends on what’s more important to you personally. The linked article’s study, to me, is compromised, they even admit it themselves by acknowledging it’s more a general animal protein thing.
The problem is that dairy subsides make cow milk less expensive than it should be. Those subsidies should be reallocated to environmentally-friendly alternatives. The average shopper at the store is going to look at the price tags and pick the one that’s like half the cost.
I am also simultaneously asking myself if prices for oatmilk are fair. Where I live the cheapest option is 1€ for a liter. But if you ever made oatmilk by yourself, you know how cheap it is do do it at home. I know I’m just lazy as f*, so I am not doing it and therefore should not rant. But I am really curious what’s behind this pricing, other than higher tax than on milk.
Logistics. It’s just oat water but it comes from far away. Just make it yourself.
You would make your own oatmeal, right? Who tf would buy premade oatmeal with the water already in it? If a few people start doing it themselves, they will drop the price of the ready-made stuff.
I tried hard to switch to almond/oat milk but the crazy thing is that it expires much more quickly than whole milk. So it was defeating the purpose because I wasn’t drinking it fast enough and ended up wasting a ton of it. Wish they’d make them in smaller jugs or whatever.
I’m genuinely confused by this statement. Plant based milk lasts SUBSTANTIALITY longer than cows milk. I can leave it in my fridge for weeks, maybe a month and its still good. I legit have not ever looked at an expiry date since switching to soy milk.
That’s not even to mention that you can buy them in unrefrigerated, shelf stable cartons. It’s longer lasting in every imaginable way.
They expire 7 days from the date you open the carton. Atleast for almond milk and I’m fairly certain that applies to oat milk as well. I thought the same as you. But one bad experience is all you need.
It depends on how much sugar is in it. Shelf stable soy milk lasts a long time in my experience. ‘Silk’ goes off in a couple weeks tho
Yes, it was the vanilla silk milk. Noted, thank you!
My oat milk lasts a month or so. Planet Oat is the one I use most. Far less sugar than almond milk and is fortified. A half-gallon I will usually finish up a few days prior to the date, but then I am only an occasional cereal killer.
I thought the same but once you open the carton it’s 7 days from the date you open it. At least that was the case with almond milk. I thought they lasted a lot longer especially since they are shelf stable etc. I had a ton of black mold on and around the rim of my almond milk well before the expiration date and that is because I’m fine print it says date of expiration is 7 days after opening.
I have some Chobani oat milk at the moment. It says June 12 for an expiration. I’ll finish it long before that, but it does always last over a month for me. I don’t normally have almond milk, so I can’t say there. Maybe the sugars contribute to your issue? No sugar in the oat milks I usually drink.
Makes sense. I do tend toward the sweetened ones. Appreciate the insight.
My family makes almond milk with our blender. It’s actually quite easy and not as expensive as buying the carton or gallon. It’s really just almonds and water (and salt or vanilla if you’re into other flavors).
Interesting I will have to try this!
There’s no way to sugarcoat it: in order to extract milk you must r— the cow and then kill its baby, then if you don’t milk them, they die.
The treatment of animals is so bad that b-------ty laws have literally failed to pass because they would have criminalized the whole industry, and that’s not even to mention the times when people who call out overt, malicious abuse suffer more consequences than the ones doing it.
Basically; the sooner we shut the system down the better. It’s unsustainable and only being held together by subsidies anyway.
Rape the cow and kill the baby? Lol what planet are you on? Most farms have a bull… and “killing the baby”, you mean like later in life to eat?
If you don’t milk them they die? No… They stop producing milk
What happens if you don’t milk a dairy cow?
Not milking a dairy cow, can cause a lot of problems. A dairy cow will produce about 8 gallons or 30 litres a day. Adding to the problem of not milking is the missing calf, as they are normally kept separately to ensure higher milk yields.
If you stop milking this cow altogether, milk production will continue until the pressure starts to build up. This process normally starts a dry up phase, which will prevent the cow from producing more milk.
Because of modern breeding practices, it’s impossible for dairy cows to dry up naturally in a high production phase before facing serious problems. As, extending this phase increase the milk output of a cow, making it more profitable to keep this state as long as possible.
For those cows, stopping to milk them will cause the udder to increase is size until it can not expand any further. This cow will be in serious pain at this point. Caused by the enormous size of the udder it will also be in the way of everyday activities, preventing the cow from properly standing, sitting or laying.
If pressure still isn’t released then the udder can rupture or get infected. Ultimately leading to the death of the cow, if she is not treated and pressure is released.
https://farmityourself.com/what-happens-if-you-dont-milk-cows/
Most farms have a bull
This is completely false. Most dairy cows are artificially inseminated.
From personal observation, non-meat farm animals are lean, sinewy and taste like shit. I’m not actually sure what they do with the calves but it’s not growing them as normal meat cows.Also, how does eating the corpse make killing more (or less) okay?
Was thinking “Oh shit now I have to become vegan”, but the article is paywalled so I didn’t have to go on the guilt trip.
