You could probably make a poptarts are sandwiches alignment style thing out of this.
Basically, any video game with an explicit goal, or set of goals is just a puzzle game with extra steps.
What buttons do you push, when do you push them, what does this accomplish, how does that lead you to your end goal, etc.
You could even argue that multiplayer tactics constitute a puzzle, a more social puzzle.
Yes, this is reductive, but this is a dumb showerthoughts post.
Going to submit my probably-not-a-puzzle-game-game: rhythm games. The game tells you exactly what to press and when you’re supposed to press it, it’s just up to you to actually press the buttons. See: DDR, Rhythm Doctor.
Note that there are rhythm games that have more decision making like crypt of the necrodancer (rhythm roguelike)
I will grant you that, I agree.
If there is no thought required to determine the difference between a correct and incorrect choice, if its purely just ‘do this’ and the only difficulty is in execution, then yes I would agree this is not a puzzle.
It’s not reductive, it’s misrepresentative. A puzzle game is only a puzzle game as long as coming up with the solution is the main task. There are more than enough games where coming up with the right solution is not difficult, but performing it is.
Also the name puzzle game implies that there are designed puzzles. Any game where you have to make decisions in generated situations aren’t puzzle games. For example if you take a specific chess situation and ask which move would lead to check mate in x moves then that’s a chess puzzle. That doesn’t make the game of chess itself a puzzle.
By your definition, Tetris is not a puzzle game.
Its generated and execution difficulty is a major factor.
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Also, technically all video games are just really long tech demos.
I mean, technically, I guess (insert Futurama technical correct meme), but with that defintion everything is a puzzle.
I just breathed in, what do I do next? I can’t inhale more air. I have to think fast! Maybe if I breath out, I can then breath in again… It worked! Amazing!
Doesn’t that just apply to life in general?
If you define “puzzle” as a problem that you must work out with hard mental effort, then no; not at all games are puzzles. Rail shooters and other mindless games that rely more on reaction speed would not constitute a puzzle since you don’t really need to even think.
Online shooter, sure. You have to think about what the other guy is gonna do. Virtua Cop? You just need to aim and shoot fast when the bad dudes appear. I mean, you could play Counter-Strike like Virtua Cop but you probably aren’t gonna be good unless you’re posted up with an AWP all the time.
I actually love Metal Gear Solid because its design is much like that of a puzzle game, where the puzzle is “how the fuck do I kill everyone without being seen?” Hitman is the same way, but it always felt less curated than MGS because there isn’t just 1 solution to the problem, where as MGS does. And a lot of it is only conveyed through their respective scoring systems.
On the flip side, I tend to dislike leaderboards in most games because there is only 1 possible way to get the maximum possible score for any given level or minigame that once it’s worked out, everyone can be at the top and the only way to truly rise above everyone is to cheat.
Almost all video games are puzzle games because you have to figure out how tf to play them. I had to study for a while before understanding Stellaris.
You managed to understand Stellaris?
I got far enough to figure out that the game takes forever because of the 10 year peace treaty period (which they added for balance).
I used to understand Stellaris before they added so, so many things to it. It’s practically a different game now than when I first bought it and I have literally none of the DLC lol
FPS are an adventure/puzzle game where the only solution is “USE GUN ON MAN”
Following this logic whole human life is a puzzle game.
Ok, so games that revolve around superhuman perfect timing are kinda pushing the idea of being a puzzle game. What about gambling games, where it’s all about the RNG instead? All you do is pull the lever and hope for the best.
What game involves super human perfect timing that does not include some other kind of puzzle to be solved?
Fighting games? Micro Heavy RTS or MOBAs? Bullet Hell Shooters?
All of these have strategy and can thus be reduced to puzzles.
I suppose if a game was purely just, click button as fast as you can after something happens, then ok, you got me, but add even one more element, and technically this is an extremely simple puzzle, albeit brutally unforgiving in terms of getting your human body to solve the puzzle.
Is there something different you have in mind?
EDIT: Alkheemist answered this later, with rhythm games (that have no elements of strategy ie, GuitarHero is not a puzzle but NecroDancer still is). I agree those are not puzzles. Skipped my mind as I have not played one in a very long time.
I would say you also have got me on a pure RNG slot game. Theres no gameplay, theres no puzzle, theres no strategy.
At least, within the game itself. If youre going to somehow exploit or hack or something, arguably thats now a real world puzzle of how to do it and not go to jail, but excepting that… yeah, there are lots of online ‘games’ with literally no puzzle element, just do thing and then random output happens, with a bunch of flashy graphics that have 0 bearing on what the outcome will be, whether its a digitized horse race or slots or whatever.
I would argue those are not really games though.
The player cannot make any choice that is more or less likely to achieve the goal, thus its the illusion of a game. No meaningful choices.
I think your definition of puzzle games is pretty flawed, to be honest. A puzzle does not provide additional difficulty once you’ve identified how the pieces go together, consequently a game should behave similarly to qualify as a puzzle game. The dichotomy is between conceptualisation versus execution.
Puzzle games can be solved or “won” by identifying the solution. Not-puzzle games require execution.
Guitar Hero and OSU! are not puzzle games. Games like RTSes and MOBAs can be argued to have puzzle elements in terms of strategy and meta, but knowing the optimal thing to do will still not give you victory which imo disqualifies them as outright puzzle games.
I would argue those are not really games though.
You were doing well until the No Real Scotsman fallacy.
You think that pushing a button that generates a purely random outcome is a game?
To me, those are neither games nor puzzles.
There is nothing one can do, in terms of thought or execution, to influence the outcome.
Other than I suppose choosing to play or not play.
To me, a game must include some capacity of the player to influence whether they succeed or fail, within the game itself.
Yeah, I’ve considered, whether you could boil all games down to three aspects:
- puzzle
- reaction
- flavor
But yeah, still really reductive and I’m not sure, this is useful in any way. 🙃
Flavor?
Basically anything that has to do with:
- story telling / plot
- world building / lore
- pacing, cinematics
- art style, music selection
- atmosphere, jump scares
Oh, I thought flavor was a style of game like puzzle or rhythm.
Okay, but pop-tarts are raviolis, not sandwiches. That doesn’t even make sense. What kind of sandwich is enclosed on all sides?
Pop-tarts are dumplings for sure. They’re cooked dough wrapped around a filling.
