I applaud you, I really do. You’ve shown an awareness of the world as it is that many young people don’t seem to have; even as they’ve been inundated with information that might inform them that THIS IS A TRAP!
I don’t fault them, though, because much of that inundation also tells them that if they just ‘apply here for $$’ they’ll be fine and as a kid I know which truth I’d like to believe. My own husband, who is frighteningly bright at all matters other than finance, fell for those same lies.
The truth is that a parent needs to help their kids navigate the “D&D full of monsters dungeon” to take advantage of the build that makes one successful… and while it can be done it’s just ‘nightmare difficulty’. If you can play through this, the rest of life gets a hell of a lot easier.
If you can’t, you’re gonna have to rely on politicians to ‘make things right’. What’s the likelihood of that in this day and age?
@Gingeybook I’d like to posit that you could profit from educating others. Just throwing that out there.
We can’t all be doctors, lawyers, engineers, and programmers. And if we all got those degrees companies would start lowering their wages because of the increased competition.
We need people to teach English, manage the environment, contribute to the arts, etc. Makes us a more well-rounded society.
It’s not a rule though, it’s working through the degree and being smart about your choices. My parents funded none of my college except meals because I ate at home
Partner has a STEM master’s degree from a good university. I make the same amount in desktop support with no degree.
Dad has an MBA. Works on databases for a living.
Sister has Bachelor’s in Industrial Design from a top design school in the US. Has worked for big name industry players. She make more money from her 1 year self-paced coding boot camp.
Most degrees are worthless these days, and it’s high time we start demanding refunds. Cancel student debt. The promises made to us in highschool about career paths were blatantly false. Also, tax billionaires.
The number from your aggregated average list is definitely not the norm from my personal job search over the last 6 months. The positions in the 50 and 60ks are for senior positions or American companies with Canada offices (with the exception of course for the CSPS, which is impossible to get into unless you know someone that can pull favours or you win a multiple years long lottery to qualify for an IT-01 pool).
I really wish it was bollocks because it’s been feeling like a whole bucket full of bollocks for a long time.
could you be more specific about what tech field you are talking about?
I too am a tech worker in Canada, but most of the jobs in my field (Kernel programmer) are starting at about 75K or so (or at least they were in 2018 when I was new), and compared to most of my peers I’m taking the passion route that pays a bit less. My wife went the dev ops route and found a similar starting salary and had I sold my soul to app dev (and the type of shop that hires only university grads) I would be looking at around 90K or so starting salary. 5 years on we are both making 115KCAD or so.
If I look at my alma maters’ coop statistics, I can see that even first year coop positions are going for an average of 20CAD/hr (so equivalent to ~40K a year) (and those numbers tend be skewed down since they include general math degrees, which have less market value).
So Either a lot has changed in the last 5 years (Job market seems to have cooled off a fair amount, but judging by my linkedin tech jobs are still very much in demand), you are talking about a tech job that doesn’t require a university degree, or their are extenuating circumstances that are making you less desirable. If it is the third there are generally quite a lot you can do to mitigate that, biggest among them being to build your portfolio (protip, small finished and/or published projects are much more impressive than large half done ones).
Without doxxing myself or giving away too much info, I am in UX and business analysis. I’m not coding (sometimes but sparingly). Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong.
My field is basically the bridge between devs and the client. Need enough technical knowledge to come up with software features to implement and enough people/business/process knowledge to make it work and temper expectations with all parties.
Feels like I should have just specialized in one thing instead of combining as that’s where all the money is.
I’ve had some really miserable jobs that barely put me through school and many of those jobs were less work/demoralizing than my job search. Feels just hopeless.
Expensive too. I don’t think I’ve ever jumped ship at the wrong time, but the consequences when there’s no other work free is terrible. Current customer service job is low pay but much easier to show up and do extra hours, nice staff and nice customers - a first!
Most junior/entry level positions that I’ve seen in my job search are situated in the $35-45k salary range (some in mid 60s but these were very few when I checked).
They required 3-5 years experience and described multiple roles at once (QA, testing, front end with back end as a strong candidate asset, UI/UX (as if it wasn’t it’s own profession as is).
Those are Canadian jobs. If I was to look at American companies with Canada offices, compensation gets better but the talent pool is super saturated since lots of people are competing for those jobs.
I’ve been looking for the better half of 2023 after remote work was ended for my position. The job search has been pretty demotivating as it looks like there’s a race to the bottom to cram as many qualifications into positions that pay the absolute least.
From the academic studies I had to research to inform my workplace on pros/cons of remote work, that wasn’t the conclusion. I’m paraphrasing but the majority of those that self reported their own productivity highlighted an overwhelming increase in productivity.
When it came down to aggregate productivity (in jobs with quantifiable KPIs), they found moderate to significant increases in productivity as long as management adjusted their managing style to accommodate remote. This opinion differed the higher up in management that studies polled.
For my workplace specifically, they had invested multiple billions throughout the entire portfolio into longterm building leases (10+ years) and could not leave these agreements so it was easier for upper management to justify the sunken cost of leases than employee opinion or perceived/measured increases in productivity.
Going to a good university and getting a degree in STEM means you get a good paying job.
I graduated college in 2022 with an electrical engineering degree and $0 in debt as I worked through it.
I applaud you, I really do. You’ve shown an awareness of the world as it is that many young people don’t seem to have; even as they’ve been inundated with information that might inform them that THIS IS A TRAP!
I don’t fault them, though, because much of that inundation also tells them that if they just ‘apply here for $$’ they’ll be fine and as a kid I know which truth I’d like to believe. My own husband, who is frighteningly bright at all matters other than finance, fell for those same lies.
The truth is that a parent needs to help their kids navigate the “D&D full of monsters dungeon” to take advantage of the build that makes one successful… and while it can be done it’s just ‘nightmare difficulty’. If you can play through this, the rest of life gets a hell of a lot easier.
If you can’t, you’re gonna have to rely on politicians to ‘make things right’. What’s the likelihood of that in this day and age?
@Gingeybook I’d like to posit that you could profit from educating others. Just throwing that out there.
We can’t all be doctors, lawyers, engineers, and programmers. And if we all got those degrees companies would start lowering their wages because of the increased competition.
We need people to teach English, manage the environment, contribute to the arts, etc. Makes us a more well-rounded society.
You experiencing the exception to the rule doesn’t mean the rule doesn’t apply to most everyone else.
It’s not a rule though, it’s working through the degree and being smart about your choices. My parents funded none of my college except meals because I ate at home
I didn’t “experience” the exception, I worked to be the exception.
I’ll be the first to admit that I did have some privilege in the fact that I lived with my parents the first 2 years.
But I worked hard to maintain grades so I could maintain scholarships that covered tuition.
I worked most nights during the week so that I could afford to pay for any other expense I had. Books, fees, transportation.
This isn’t just a matter of experiencing this situation, I made sacrifices to make it work
Partner has a STEM master’s degree from a good university. I make the same amount in desktop support with no degree.
Dad has an MBA. Works on databases for a living.
Sister has Bachelor’s in Industrial Design from a top design school in the US. Has worked for big name industry players. She make more money from her 1 year self-paced coding boot camp.
Most degrees are worthless these days, and it’s high time we start demanding refunds. Cancel student debt. The promises made to us in highschool about career paths were blatantly false. Also, tax billionaires.
Not even close. Tech jobs in Canada are often only a few dollars an hour more than min wage.
Bollocks, unless min is 30 bucks an hour?
United States. $110,140.
Switzerland. $97,518.
Israel. $71,559.
Denmark. $63,680.
Canada. $61,680.
Norway. $57,013.
Australia. $55,640.
United Kingdom. $55,275.
https://codesubmit.io/blog/software-engineer-salary-by-country/
The number from your aggregated average list is definitely not the norm from my personal job search over the last 6 months. The positions in the 50 and 60ks are for senior positions or American companies with Canada offices (with the exception of course for the CSPS, which is impossible to get into unless you know someone that can pull favours or you win a multiple years long lottery to qualify for an IT-01 pool).
I really wish it was bollocks because it’s been feeling like a whole bucket full of bollocks for a long time.
could you be more specific about what tech field you are talking about?
I too am a tech worker in Canada, but most of the jobs in my field (Kernel programmer) are starting at about 75K or so (or at least they were in 2018 when I was new), and compared to most of my peers I’m taking the passion route that pays a bit less. My wife went the dev ops route and found a similar starting salary and had I sold my soul to app dev (and the type of shop that hires only university grads) I would be looking at around 90K or so starting salary. 5 years on we are both making 115KCAD or so.
If I look at my alma maters’ coop statistics, I can see that even first year coop positions are going for an average of 20CAD/hr (so equivalent to ~40K a year) (and those numbers tend be skewed down since they include general math degrees, which have less market value).
So Either a lot has changed in the last 5 years (Job market seems to have cooled off a fair amount, but judging by my linkedin tech jobs are still very much in demand), you are talking about a tech job that doesn’t require a university degree, or their are extenuating circumstances that are making you less desirable. If it is the third there are generally quite a lot you can do to mitigate that, biggest among them being to build your portfolio (protip, small finished and/or published projects are much more impressive than large half done ones).
Without doxxing myself or giving away too much info, I am in UX and business analysis. I’m not coding (sometimes but sparingly). Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong.
My field is basically the bridge between devs and the client. Need enough technical knowledge to come up with software features to implement and enough people/business/process knowledge to make it work and temper expectations with all parties.
Feels like I should have just specialized in one thing instead of combining as that’s where all the money is.
Looking for a job is a job far more punishing than many of the paid jobs I’ve had :(
I’ve had some really miserable jobs that barely put me through school and many of those jobs were less work/demoralizing than my job search. Feels just hopeless.
Expensive too. I don’t think I’ve ever jumped ship at the wrong time, but the consequences when there’s no other work free is terrible. Current customer service job is low pay but much easier to show up and do extra hours, nice staff and nice customers - a first!
Tech as in STEM and CS? No possible way engineer gigs of any stripe are that low
Wtf…why? Is there just too many of them?
Most junior/entry level positions that I’ve seen in my job search are situated in the $35-45k salary range (some in mid 60s but these were very few when I checked).
They required 3-5 years experience and described multiple roles at once (QA, testing, front end with back end as a strong candidate asset, UI/UX (as if it wasn’t it’s own profession as is).
Those are Canadian jobs. If I was to look at American companies with Canada offices, compensation gets better but the talent pool is super saturated since lots of people are competing for those jobs.
Yo, if your in tach getting paid this shit, you need to find a new company.
I’ve been looking for the better half of 2023 after remote work was ended for my position. The job search has been pretty demotivating as it looks like there’s a race to the bottom to cram as many qualifications into positions that pay the absolute least.
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From the academic studies I had to research to inform my workplace on pros/cons of remote work, that wasn’t the conclusion. I’m paraphrasing but the majority of those that self reported their own productivity highlighted an overwhelming increase in productivity.
When it came down to aggregate productivity (in jobs with quantifiable KPIs), they found moderate to significant increases in productivity as long as management adjusted their managing style to accommodate remote. This opinion differed the higher up in management that studies polled.
For my workplace specifically, they had invested multiple billions throughout the entire portfolio into longterm building leases (10+ years) and could not leave these agreements so it was easier for upper management to justify the sunken cost of leases than employee opinion or perceived/measured increases in productivity.
deleted by creator