I’m never putting one of these in my home.
Would’ve been newsworthy if it wasn’t the case
Of course they are. If you are surprised by this, then you are an idiot.
I work for Amazon.
This has been the case for many years. Amazon has used AI in Alexa and other services for many years as primary providers, and has told it’s users it’s used it’s data for as long. We’re talking from close to inception here, so 6-7 years, at least. Hell, LLM’s aren’t even new to most big tech companies!
I’m all for privacy, but if you want privacy then you probably shouldn’t have a fucking tin can in your house that actions every conversation to a cloud service!
I bought an Alexa but I disable the mic. Do they still listen?
They literally tell you when you go through setup.
Well,that’s the thing with “news” right? Just scattered information without context for clicks. If people start connecting the dots and things make sense, most of the news become pretty uninteresting and would not evoke anger, prompting you to click and share.
Harsh but true. We need some tough love in our relationship with tech.
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Because most people are idiots.
Ok see that’s actually a really good point.
Yeah, that’s kinda the point. They literally tell you that your voice interactions are used to improve the service.
I gItz NufIN Ti HIIIDE
I will be the last person to not have a smart home. There will be a banner over the doorway: “Welcome to Stupid House”.
There will be a small cover charge.
You can have a privacy-first smart home. I have. I run Home Assistant in a docker container. No external services/plugins. My smart doorbell streams to my local nvr. If my internet is down, everything keeps working. And it’s not even that hard anymore. It’s become a lot easier over the last 2-3 years. Still not for non-techie users, but a lot better.
That sounds pretty reasonable.
Edit: Still kind of want to call my place “Stupid House” for myriad other reasons
I’m not tech illiterate by any means, and everything after “home assistant” in that post is Greek to me
Docker is a way to run containers. Basically lightweight virtual servers. That makes it easy to run multiple servers on one machine. An NVR is a network video recorder. It’s like a video security system like they use in stores where all cameras are viewed and recorded in a single place. I assume you know what a doorbell is 😄
Have any resources to get started with that? Been looking into security systems but don’t fully trust nest/ring/simplisafe etc
Just start with a local Home Assistant on. Raspberry Pi and go from there: https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/
Teach me your ways please! Setting up a Home Assistant seems like such a daunting task. I’m stalling converting my devices into it. Any tips for a (home assistant) beginner?
Start with a Raspberry Pi and just follow the docs: https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/
That’s the easy way. I did it the hard way, but that’s because I run on on a big dedicated home server together with a dozen other services.
I just followed the steps on their site. Containers give me cancer, so I did a real install on my home server.
Caveat: I am a professional software engineer (but I didn’t really have to hack anything)
I’m with you. I hate how they expect me to control everything from my phone or with voice commands. I’m fine walking to a light switch or walking to the thermostat.
There’s a middle ground as well. I refuse to put Alexa or OK Google or whatever on any of my stuff, but I run home-assistant with zigbee smart devices. My entire setup runs completely cut off from the internet. I could in theory even air gap it, although that’s a little overkill. It’s a “smart” house, but one I’m 100% in control of.
Is that self hosted? I’d just about fuck with a FOSS self hosted smart home setup, but even then I could barely be arsed
Yes. You can host it on a pi if you want
That’s badass. I’ve got one lying around actually.
Be careful running it in a Pi because it’s a little heavy for that depending on how you configure it. A Pi model 4 is probably OK, but you wouldn’t want to run it on a model 3 or something even older, and you’re going to want to use one with at least 4GB of RAM.
Ah shit, the raspberry I’ve got is old as hell. Thanks for the heads up.
Yep, I run mine on an ODroid XU4, but you can run it on just about anything including a docker container on a generic Linux install.
I’m using z-wave stuff but similar setup. Home Assistant does reach out to the cloud for some things like weather forecast and Google calendar but otherwise it will operate 100% without internet if needed. I also have cameras that while they aren’t air-gappend they are blocked from Internet access and can only talk to the NVR.
The last thing I want is to talk to a computer. Buttons are fine. The roboto phone customer service is bad enough.
I’m fine walking to a light switch or walking to the thermostat.
When the hallway light was left on again it’s really damn nice to simply say “Turn Off Hallway Light” while staying under my nice warm covers. It’s also pretty swank to have the garage lights turn on when the garage door opens then turn themselves back off 5 minutes after the garage door closes. Someone left their closet light on? No problemo, my automation catches that and shuts it off.
Window coverings like blinds and drapes? Yeah, those are opening and closing automatically based on the position of the sun, even when I’m not home to do it. Did it rain while I was at work? Automation keeps my sprinklers from running tonight.
All of that is being done by Home Assistant and absolutely no Internet is required to make it work.
it’s really damn nice to simply say “Turn Off Hallway Light”
Can you use a custom wake word? The only reason why I’m still using Alexa is for the “computer” wake word.
When skynet comes online, I’ll die quickly, being mopped to death. You’ll have to struggle in the post apocalyptic hellscape where humans fight robots with A-10s for some reason.
not sure how much they’ll learn from me screaming “you dumb bitch” at it
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The new Amazon AI is going to be remarkably foul-mouthed. Every time it screws up (and it screws up a lot) I have to curse at it to make it shut up so it can hear the command again.
I brings me joy when I tell her “Alexa, shut up you dumb bitch” and then she responds with that sad minor tone dejected sound.
So who thinks this conversation here on lemmy isn’t being used to train an AI? Maybe not right now but later?
Sure the relatively small size of lemmy means it might not be scooped up and trained on. But the point still stands. All that is publicly online is food for the big-corp AI builders. And while Alexa invading your home privacy is obviously a shitty thing, I’m not sure we’ve all thought through the new relationship between us, the internet and the big AIs.
Well I know I have no expectation of privacy here, but I’d rather open source LLMs train on my words along with proprietary ones, than some company hoarding information and selling it to each other.
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They are listening to you even when you’re not talking to alexa, did you know that
Obviously. How else would it hear you say, “Alexa?”
I’d love a citation on this, outside of wakeword usage (a local device waiting for "Alexa* to begin recording).
What about just a firestick? That uses Alexa
haven't we all known this since product launch ?
I think most people, me included, underestimate the scale of the operation. When you hear “company will use private data to do X”, you imagine what a reasonable person would do, like random sample a few conversations here and there. In reality they record everything permanently over months and years, far beyond what would be necessary to run the service.
It’s kind of crazy how we get this level of surveillance while still having software that will lose your data if you don’t hit
Saveoften enough.that’s fair. i work with data for a living so that probably biases my perspective
And none of it has paid off because Alexa is still super trash
I love being able to dictate a grocery list but god damn is she stupid.
Good luck asking for cream cheese and chive crackers without ending up with cream cheese as one item and chive crackers as another. Or worse peanut butter and honey crackers as peanut butter and then honey crackers
“chive crackers with cream cheese”
“honey crackers with peanut butter”
?
The problem is that Alexa isn't actually parsing the meaning of the total phrase, she's taking each individual word as it comes. With that context, she would just as easily interpret your phrasing as "thing with thing on the side". You'd still get chive crackers, honey crackers, peanut butter, and cream cheese.
Yeah, I realized these things are terrible about a year ago. So, I hacked them into computer speakers using some cheap amps and a 12 volt power supply.
It’ll be really good at telling people to shut the fuck up if it’s using my data for training.
Is this a surprise to anyone?
This was already my understanding when I got the first pre-release one in 2014.
In that time, it has mainly learned how to"dim the living area lights to 50%" and “set the AC to 22 degrees”. That is about 99% of it’s use.
Wonder if that’s helped it’s AI much…
These types of projects are driven by metrics, and teams have some kind of quota/goal that they need to reach by a certain date to keep the project on schedule. Bonuses or job security may be on the line here, and so you may see some desperate employees “going the extra mile” to reach their goals.
Relatedly, Alexa’s voice activation sensitivity is essentially a tunable number. It can be changed to be more sensitive, so that it will activate more easily (e.g. maybe you say “Alex” instead of “Alexa”). The people who control this are likely on the team with that deadline, so the incentives are there to lower this value in order to collect more data by recording personal conversations “accidentally”. Maybe a bad update goes out that causes Alexa to activate randomly, and they quickly fix it after a few days when they collected all the non-Alexa personal conversations they need for their AI.
That’s maybe a bit too deep into the paranoia/tinfoil hat spectrum for some, but history has shown that you can’t give big tech the benefit of the doubt. Especially when you see some of the documents from the Google trial, where executives discuss rolling back new features to improve arbitrary metrics in the short term so that they can get their bonuses for the quarter, even if it hurts consumers.
