If you like the ideas of the Green Party, vote for them at the local level. The fact that they don’t seem to want to govern at the local level is enough for me to ignore them as an option.
This needs to be said more than anything else.
Politics NEVER changes from the top down. You don’t elect some absolute newcomer who circumvents all the normal paths and then completely revolutionizes the country. (At least not in a stable, functioning society.) Politics in the US happens from the ground up. Not top down.
If any third party was serious about changing society, they would start at the local level. Then, after proving that they can enact meaningful change and bridge the divide between the huge political span that Americans hold, they would sweep their state elections and federal elections.
All of these pie-in-the-sky parties who think that they will win the presidency and then somehow enact society-changing legislation (_the president doesn’t make laws!!!_) are either fools or charlatans.
vote for them at the local level.
They only run in a handful of local races. I’ve lived in both a red state and a blue state- Indiana and California- in multiple districts and I have never once seen a green party candidate on the local level.
That is literally my point. Ignore them until they seem to want governance as opposed to only seeing them in national headlines tilting at windmills. It’s worthless.
If you like Stein’s platform, voting for Stein will decrease the likelihood of you ever seeing such a policy implemented. If, say, a state rep. runs on a Green platform, they would likely get my vote.
I know it was your point. I was supporting it.
Cool. I really hate the English use of “you” when “one” is really the word one wants. But when one uses “one” as opposed to “you”, one sounds crazy.
I honestly think a lot of online defensiveness arises from this construction.
I’m saying, it sounds like I’m saying “you need to do blah cuz you’re wrong about blah”, when I would prefer it to be read as reiterating my earlier point of “if one wants to see Green policies enacted, one would do well to ignore Jill Stein.”
I think you’re probably right about that.
Someone should start a community for the use of one instead of you.
Gayle McLaughlin used to be the Green Party’s best example of what they could do at the local level, until she left in 2016 to vote for Bernie Sanders. I’m fairly certain she is the outlier.
Right. I do believe that many members of the Green Party are good political options. It’s just they as a party don’t rally around them. They only seem to push for the presidency. I don’t see how they can hope to accomplish anything when they seem to shoot for the moon every four years, and only manage to spoil things.
Until I start seeing good options on the ballots from the Greens, I will just continue to hope the progressives win the dem. primaries for my local seats.
They only seem to push for the presidency
This is the key indicator and red flag that they are a clown party that isn’t serious about politics. They’re in it for the attention and the money.
They can’t run local level candidates without funding. All you do is complain instead of help.
I’m a voter, my friend. I can complain about a party all damn day. If you think that a political party is going get a dime from me before they can even convince me to vote for them, you have strange spending habits.
https://www.gp.org/featured_officeholders
They do focus on local elections, you just don’t hear about it because for the most part no one cares about local politics.
It’s not that I don’t care about local politics. You sending a link that’s relevant to other people’s local politics is completely irrelevant to me. Until the GP option is common on local ballots, not just 5 featured ones, I do not want hear about a presidential run.
By the way, I do commemorate you on your outreach and activism. You’re getting shit on in this thread, and you’re still politely getting your links out. Good work.
And they can run presidential candidates without funding??? What the heck are you talking about?
It’s easier to raise awareness of the campaign, and yes they historically get much more attention and funding.
Not this shit again. Our country literally might not survive another Donald Trump presidency, which is what you’re helping happen by supporting a 3rd-party candidate when we have a 2-party system.
- Keep Trump and his goons from taking power
- Vote local. This is where things like ranked-choice voting and reproductive rights are created and have impact
- When it’s not “first past the post”, vote for whoever you want, guilt-free! At this point, there’s no such thing as a spoiler candidate…
It’s called priorities.
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!
I voted but Sanjaya, but that’s only because the ballot was confusing.
I don’t believe there is any way Biden will be re-elected. If for no other reason when he finally dies of old age who would want kamala running the show.
This is as bad a take as people saying there’s no way he can lose re-election. Pro or against, betting POTUS (who has the best healthcare in the world) will die in the next 4 years is the longest of bets. Also, no one votes based on who the successor might be. Lastly, he’s healthier than Trump for fuck’s sake…
Dude is like 80. Math doesn’t lie and the best doctors in the world can’t stop time. Statistically it’s time to dig a hole. He won’t be re-elected, but if he were there’s no way he’s got another 4 years left kicking dirt.
the best doctors in the world can’t stop time
Ok but life expectancy literally directly correlates with the quality of your healthcare
Understood. He’s already 8 years past the average life expectancy of a American man. The writing is on the wall.
He can, and possibly will, pick a new running mate.
vote for whoever you want, guilt-free
i do this now. the only decision i have left to make is whether it’s going to be jill stein or cornel west.
We count those as Republican votes. Thank you for your service, patriot!
this is election misinformation.
It was a joke. But functionally, you’re throwing your vote away. If you care so much about 3rd-party candidates, instead help us pass ranked-choice voting!
If you care so much about 3rd-party candidates
honestly, i don’t. i vote because it takes like no effort, but i vote for people i actually want to win. i’m not terribly invested in whether they do, though: every politician i’ve ever voted for who won turned out to be a terrible disappointment.
every politician i’ve ever voted for who won turned out to be a terrible disappointment.
Weird. Based on your comments, you’re clearly a rational, empathetic individual open to intelligent discussion, so the issue can’t be you…
i know. the issue is unjust hierarchies.
help us pass ranked-choice voting!
no, thank you. i don’t want that system any more than the current one.
Oh you know so much about third party politics, tell us why did Bernie run for president in the Democratic primary?
i don’t see the point of this question. it’s clearly rhetorical. if you have something to say, say it.
I think we’d all like to hear your expert take.
theres no expertise needed. we can ask him why he chose to run as a democrat.
“There’s no secret that I think that the Democratic Party has not been vigorous enough in standing up for working families. I’ve said that repeatedly and I say it again,” Sanders told Seven Days. “On the other hand, I will also tell you [there are] some great people in the Democratic Party that I work closely with. But right now, it seems to me the most effective and practical way to go forward is to participate in the Democratic primary process.”
you don’t need to know anything about so-called “third party” politics to know that if you count a vote for one person as another, that’s illegal and it is not the policy to count green votes as republican votes.
This is a weird comment. It’s not “so called,” It’s actually called third party politics. And Bernie is the longest serving third party politician I think ever, at least in modern history.
Never forget that Jill Stein was at the same event and at the same table as Putin and that traitor Flynn
this is decontextualized propaganda. if you click the link and watch the video, the explanation is benign.
Why don’t you do everyone who can’t watch a video at the moment a favor, and explain how it is decontexualized?
She happened to be at a table with a world leader at a large event. Guess who else has been at a table with Putin? Most recent US presidents and countless other politicians.
Yeah, actual world leaders. Who the fuck is Jill Stein besides a failed Presidential candidate. What an insane comparison.
and countless other politicians
No, we can count them. I specifically recall seven (eight?) Republican lawmakers, including Rand Paul who personally delivered a letter to Putin, visiting Moscow on July 4, 2018. Of all days.
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626664156/gop-senators-spend-july-4-in-moscow
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/08/rand-paul-delivers-letter-to-trump-from-putin-766743
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/09/636982295/is-it-springtime-for-putin-and-republicans
the video is great. the text that is above the link to it is the decontextualized propaganda
I used to hear people complain that Stein sat at a table with Putin and I assumed it was at a charity event or state dinner but it turns out she was a special guest for the 10th anniversary of the Russian state funded TV propaganda network RT in Moscow.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696
she was a special guest
no, she wasn’t. she bought a ticket.
You don’t sit with Putin, just because you purchase a ticket.
he only sat at the table a couple minutes, and didn’t speak to anyone
if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
good rule of thumb but if I’m sitting at a table in Hitler’s Germany, am I supposed to start throwing knives in the middle of his propaganda gala?
“They did offer to pay my way and I said, No thank you.”
Sounds like a VIP to me. She was also sitting at the table with the keynote speaker, Michael Flynn.
Until now, Stein hasn’t offered many details about how she came to be there or what happened beyond saying it was “a great opportunity to lay out some of my foreign policy proposals and get Russian reactions to them.”
So she wanted Putin’s approval on her foreign policy?
If that’s true, is that supposed to make it better? She traveled half way around the world to celebrate the anniversary of a Putin propaganda network.
to celebrate.te a network that has given her more airtime than CNN, MSNBC, and Fox combined.
Oh what luck! She bought a ticket and ended up next to those people. She must have been so surprised!
she was. did you watch the video link in these comments?
Remember when Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump?
Dobbs remembers!
no. that didn’t happen.
Electricity wasn’t discovered either.
i don’t follow.
Aren’t we spouting baseless lies?
i wasn’t
Ah so it was ignorance in your case?
no, it was the truth.
Wow, her chance of winning is so high. And won’t tip the results toward the right wing at all And pigs have wings
Something something Russian check is in the mail Jill.
Totally not running as a spoiler, nahhh. Not good ol Jill Spoiler Stein! She just wants you to Send A Message™ (at an incredibly important time that has lasting repercussions if you actually follow through.)
Here’s an idea, if you actually gave a shit Jill, why not lead the charge for ranked choice voting!!! Put your damn face all over the media when it’s not an election year so you can actually push for positive change. At least then you’d stand a chance and people could actually vote for you! But no, that’s not the intent. The intent is to syphon votes from Democrats again.
Her last campaign went heavy on ranked choice (as all green party candidates have been) but the green party has to run candidates to retain ballot access and therefore retain members. Campaigns are also a great way to promote issues ignored by major candidates (such as rcv) but the press has not been kind to third parties since ross perot so its not a surprise most people are unfamiliar with green party platforms.
in 2023 post covid her tepid vaccine skepticism seems like some major baggage (along with 2016s brutal coverage) and I wouldn’t be surprised if she was more picking up jimmy dore style dumbass voters this time around and less acting as a spoiler. Her reputation is so toxic at this point that it does seem like the green party is throwing democrats a bone here.
i think she’d be just as happy to “syphon votes from” republicans. i think she wants all the votes she can get and doesn’t much care who your second choice would be.
Show me a republican who would vote for the green party, and I’ll show you a very confused and lonely magic crystal and energy healing enthusiast.
technically, at the moment, i am registered republican, but i vote green.
I feel the word “technically”, here, is likely pulling so much weight that it invalidates your comment entirely.
i mean the whole idea of identifying with a party is pretty invalid IMHO.
democrats don’t own the votes, the voters do. they need to earn them like everyone else.
Of course they don’t own the votes, but you vote to get an outcome. If you’re voting for someone third party who has literally 0 chance of winning, but actually agree with some of what the Democrats want and not much at all of what Republicans want then the only outcome you get is the party you agree with least winning because you wanted to send a message to the party you partially agreed with.
the only outcome you get is the party you agree with least winning because you wanted to send a message to the party you partially agreed with.
it’s not about sending a message to democrats or republicans. it’s about who i want to win. also, it’s really hard to tell which party i agree with least.
That’s what I thought the first time as well. It turns out that who you want to win means fuck all in real life. It’s a bit like saying “I don’t want my arm to be broken” when you fall on it. I’m sure you don’t, but if you care about how it heals you’ll go to the hospital and get a cast put on it, even if it’s uncomfortable.
And to me, it’s easy to figure out who I agree with least. One of them actively wants LGBT folks dead, and the other one doesn’t actively want that. Everything else could be exactly the same and it would still be braindead easy to figure out.
if it means so much to you, I live in a swing state. the state penalty for selling my vote is $5k. that’s the federal fine, too. put another 10k on top for my troubles and I’ll vote any way you like.
I wouldn’t count on the Democrats to keep genocidal maniacs from your doorstep. better to get a gun and join a local resistance movement.
I’d rather the people that don’t presently want genocidal maniacs killing me and my friends be in office than the genocidal maniacs themselves, and you must recognize that it is, in fact, one of those two choices that are going to win.
they’re not the same with one exception tho. they’re both deeply bad In similar and unique ways. neither is acceptable.
In what way are Democrats bad, that Republicans aren’t?
Good news is there’s like 300 of you in the country so it doesn’t matter
if it didn’t matter why is my inbox full?
Are you serious right now?
Green Party will always run a candidate. Just be thankful their candidate is the charmless husk of a moron that is Jill Stein.
As someone else mentioned, Jill is a great Green party candidate for Democrats because she sucks. She’s not that young, has Russian baggage, and isn’t the new face that could make the party more popular. The philosopher dude, West, seemed a bit more dangerous, but Stein being their nominee drills in the fact that there are no viable 3rd parties. The real strategy has been that of the DSA, where they promote their own candidates within the two party system. It’s both realistic, and far more effective than throwing your vote away.
The only people who will vote for a known spoiler like Jill Stein are to far gone to have really been potential Biden voters.
she has no Russian baggage.
Why is a diplomat sitting next to someone a Russian connection? It’s literally their job to try and get along.
Stein is a doctor not a diplomat, you bag of hair.
Must suck to get your paychecks in rubles
Fuck off. Useless piece of shit.
Isn’t this how you communicate?
It doesn’t matter what they are. It’s a picture. Get more than two people standing next to each other or you are too stupid to listen to. Convincing people takes intelligence. Not name calling.
You’re right about that person’s demeanor. But you are wrong about this picture. It’s not that easy to be seated at a table with putin.
I’m not saying it’s easy or hard. I’m saying that it takes more than a picture to prove conjecture.
really.
that picture is decontextualized propaganda.
Well I guess if that’s what you say, we have to believe you.
The funny thing about baggage in politics is that it needn’t be based on truth or an actually immoral act. Plenty of politicians lose votes and races because they did something that prudes consider scandalous, but younger people don’t care about. A ton of the reasons for people disliking politicians are either based on lies, or something that’s unimportant.
I hear so many lies or half truths about politicians I don’t like either, but still vote for because they’re the best option. It’s like people purity test by telling a lie when they don’t need to in order to make their point. They then accuse the person who points out their lies of holding a position they do not hold. I don’t like lying, even about people I hate. I want to dislike people for good reasons, and wish others did as well.
You mean the Russian puppet Jill Stein? I’m pretty sure the Republicans are already doing that one.
Can you elaborate on this comment a bit?
this link undermine the claim she is a Russian asset
jill stein isn’t a russian puppet
Yes she is.
you have no proof for this.
Again? How much did Putin offer her this time?
For a stand up gal like her? At least 1 dollar
Why vote for Stein when you can directly vote for Trump? /s
a vote for stein is a vote against the other candidates in the race.
So you’re effectively going to vote for nobody and let everyone else decide the race?
i haven’t decided who i’m going to vote for, but rgiht now i like jill stein and cornel west.
I felt this way when I was 18 also. I voted green and Bush II won. I live in California, so the electoral college essentially means I still voted for Gore. It really doesn’t matter unless you live in a swing state.
I’m confused as to why you’re a third party voter who is against ranked choice though, it’s really the only chance we have at being able to meaningfully vote with our conscience.
Bush II won
he was installed by his daddy’s friends. we could have all voted for jill stein in 2000 and it wouldn’t have mattered.
I’m confused as to why you’re a third party voter who is against ranked choice though
in the system we have where we vote for people to take positions of power, i will vote for the person who i want to win that. if i have a chance to change this system, we will be eliminating positions of power. i don’t care to change how our masters are chosen: man need not be ruled.
Then why vote at all? Why would you want Jill Stein holding power over you? Dismissing the only chance you have to actually vote for a person you want to win seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. But it’s becoming more and more apparent that you live to troll, so I guess that follows.
Don’t bother this dude literally spends all day spamming political threads with garbage on Lemmy.
But it’s becoming more and more apparent that you live to troll, so I guess that follows.
this is just a personal attack
Dismissing the only chance you have to actually vote for a person you want to win seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
if i have the opportunity to advocate for a differenty system of choosing masters or advocating for a system with no masters, every minute i spend advocating for the different system with masters is a minute i’m not working toward the system i actually want.
Then why vote at all? Why would you want Jill Stein holding power over you?
it takes literally no effort and i like to do it. in an ideal world, i don’t want jill stein or anyone else to hold power. so long as this system exists, i’m not sure i want anyone else, but i’m honestly torn between her and cornel west right now.
But you’re against rank choice voting (wasn’t sure, but the person above said you were)?
I’m against spending my time advocating for it because I don’t think it’s a solution to the problems. I’m no more opposed to it than the current system.
Maybe if you don’t understand how the US electoral system works…
this is just posturing and rhetoric.
It is math, actually.
no, it’s not.
Been there. Done that. Not again.
You know what would be amazing, if a third party candidate would run and then demand policy position concessions form the Democratic nominee in exchange for dropping out, rather than running through the election and risking a Republican presidency.
The green party is routinely funded by the GOP. Their existence is to be a spoiler and pull votes from Dems to swing races towards republicans.
They’re already doing what they’re being paid to do.
That’s kinda what the WFP does?
They have a sort of tacit agreement with the Dems where they’ll run their candidates in the Dem Primary pool and then both will endorse the winner, and then they’ll only compete directly when there’s no chance it’ll throw a race to the Republicans.
I think that’s the only rational way to interpret her run. Even she doesn’t want to run through.
Edit: I checked her record on previous runs, and omg I was so wrong…
Yyyyyep, she’s a regular Nader type, unfortunately.
How on the hell do Green party members stand behind her? Her leadership undermines all the good intentions of the party policies.
Is she still willing to acknowledge worries from people about phones and microwaves? Or is she supporting science this year?
She still waiting on putin’s directives
She is not the reason why Clinton lost and this amount of hate is not proportional. No, I didn’t vote for Jill and I have no intention to.
Clinton lost because she is a corporate ghoul with no soul and no real views. She just believes whatever gets her the most attention and success.
Yeah how dare an elected official change their views to align with her desired constituents.
Real politicians tell their voters to shove it and cry about it!
Bernie Sanders has had similar worldviews since he was in politics. People with principles don’t flip flop like she does.
That why Bernie is a MIC hawk for all the projects that get built in Vermont?
clinton because she was a bad candidate.
oh fuck off, jill
