41?
Cherry picked statistic of transgender suicide rate. They only look at that number, but never why that number is so high.
It’s almost like constant bullying has a major effect on people’s mental health
Man that number is high
It’s also not the suicide rate. It’s either the has attempted suicide at least once in their life rate or the thought about it rate. Can’t quite remember which, but definitely not the suicide rate.
Even including attempts that’s high as shit. Thought about it, then it might not be that high, depending on how serious the thought have to be.
I’m fairly certain it’s attempts now that I’ve looked at it again. It’s been a long time since I’ve read breakdowns of the studies and what the numbers all mean. It wasn’t as simple as 41% of trans people attempt suicide. The numbers went down post transition and I don’t think suicide attempts had to be serious attempts to be counted (I think it’s worth nitpicking this).
Edit: Tried finding the survey the number comes from and got a bunch of different responses that are just confusing me more at this point. I’m probably done here, since researching suicide statistics isn’t a ton of fun.
That’s understandable
Who hasn’t thought about suicide even once in their life? I mean really.
A bit of the call of the void every now and then keeps you on the edge
Thought? Sure. But this was “attempted”, which is way past thinking of it
And if it is the suicide rate there’s no way it isn’t massively skewed by doing some fuckery about who is counted.
Like me in high school.
Is that referring to 41%, 41 per 1000, or some other metric entirely? Either way it’s too damn high, but I’m curious and I don’t know how to go about researching it without potentially making the almighty algorithm think I’m anti-trans.
Percent
Thank you, that is absolutely heart-wrenching.
It certainly is. I know my sister has tried multiple times at this point and that’s with support of loved ones and friends. She is also fortunate to have always had access to her medication needs.
Well,
41would imply41/1 = 41, so…I don’t understand, could you please elaborate?
x = x/1 = x is true for all numbers, no?
Bullying would not explain that high of a number unless direct persecution is shown to have very high suicide rates.
Bullying makes it seem like its happening only in a school playground, and doesn’t even hint at the amount of discrimination they face.
Trans ppl face high levels of sexual assault, hate crimes, exclusion from family, lack of support networks, economic hardship from not being able to get hired, medical discrimination, societal discrimination, and a whole lot more.
I understand the full scope of what you are saying, but if these factors were the cause then you would see higher relative rates among groups that have been even more harmed throughout history.
0·2 months agogroups that have been even more harmed
WHO???
you would see higher relative rates
And you don’t?
WHO???
Jews in the haulocaust, or black slaves, or blacks in the south after slavery ended. There are probably a lot of good data sets I am not aware of that study these kinds of things have data on.
Do you have any non-horrible opinions?
I think in this context bullying can be expanded to its summative affect at the level of the society. This accumlative persecution is cultural and does in turn lesd to internal beliefs that one’s perceived deviance, as pushed by the dominant social narrative, is unworthy. There are studies that demonstrate societal pressures/persecution does lead to increased rates of suicide. This is most notable within marginalized groups supporting the point made above.
I am open to actual data showing this from historically abused and marginalized group.
If you have time for a podcast, ScienceVS has done two episodes on trans people with well researched citations. The more recent episode looks specifically at the issue of bullying and negative trans experience. Hope this helps. Cheers!
I listened to that podcast, and it is just a one sided argument against a few studies, and just kind of hand waves away criticism or strawmans it.
I’m cis. I’m a cis man with a exclusive sexual interest in cis women. I find the term very helpful to express very clearly who I am and what I want. I can’t imagine being so delicate as to lose my shit over being called cis.
Wow guys, get a load of this cissy over here!
(Jk me too lol)
I’m cis and my sister is too. My cister, if you will.
I find the word as displeasing as some people find ‘moist’, but I’m entitled to an opinion. Am I going to wave a sign around and demonstrate over it despite thinking it was promoted for its potential to upset the victim? Of course not: it’s just a stupid name and I’ve been called far worse by better drill sergeants. There’s a lot of room in there between disliking something and “losing my shit over” it, and it will help respecting others if you understand that.
Hi! I know this might just be the wrong context at this point as you are already getting flak, but I was curious and wanted to ask why you have exclusive sexual interest in cis women?
For example I would imagine some heterosexual cis men would have a hard time dating a trans woman who haven’t had bottom surgery or who are early in their transition (in which case sometimes the sexual preference is phrased as a genital preference rather than about exclusively dating cis people).
Some women who for various reasons pass well as cis are not distinguishable from cis women, and in that case I assume based on your statement you still would have a hard time dating that person if you found out they were trans.
For example, based on your statement I assume you wouldn’t date or be attracted to Nava Mau.
I understand if you don’t want to answer, it’s not like this is the best context and it is a vulnerable topic - just wanted to extend an olive branch in case you wanted to talk and think about it with less judgement.
Hi. I’m happy to talk to someone who wants to have a reasonable conversation.
Just some context. My wife is bisexual, my sister is bisexual, my daughter is a lesbian, my son and daughter both have non-binary and trans friends who I regularly spend time with, I have gay friends and lesbian friends, I was a member of the wedding party at a same sex wedding, I am friends with a local transmasc, and I’ve had a pair of transfem friends for more than 50 years. I am very much an ally to the LGBTQ+ community.
I have always been straight and have always been interested in women. My experience with my two long time transfem friends colors my preference. Both have very serious mental health issues. One is post-surgical, the other will never be able to get surgery. I do not find Nava Manu attractive but that is strictly a funcion of what I see as vary sharp facial features. She reminds me of Theodora Elphaba. Jaime Clayton, on the other hand, I find very attractive. I’m not completely closed to the idea of a relationship with a trans woman but in my fairly broad experience with trans women I have never encountered anyone who I would be at all interested in having a relationship with. Thus, my preference is for cis women.
Imagine we joked about cisgender men suicide rates the same way we joke about transgender suicide rates.
Plus this statistic is flawed. It comes from an older study that does not even compare pre- to post- transition.
People who joke like that are disgusting.
I don’t care who you are, if your best option is suicide, we failed you and we should be sorry.
In fact, the American Psychological Association warns that manhood and masculinity are so construed by society’s expectations, that being a man poses mental health risks itself.
There is a whole subdiscipline that focuses on 'counseling men".
Not to mention no one of this lot wants to have this discussion, either online or IRL.
https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf
That is literally exactly what is happening. MtF transwomen are considered men by haters and hence get the male treatment of crass jokes and lack of support.
Transphobia is the intersection of misandry and toxic masculinity and all of it is gross.
I think I’m missing something with “41” is it some kind of dog whistle?
41%, or the statistic of how many transgender people have attempted to commit suicide.
Sometimes used as a synonym for suicide.
Of course it’s something horrific like that. Fuck those people. 41 goes on my dog whistle list.
Would you share that list?
I feel my life is happier not knowing or caring about their dog whistles. Is that harmful to others?
I don’t want to live on the same planet with anyone who would quote that statistic for any reason other than an emphatic demand for action to lower it
I don’t understand how anyone can think hate is ever the right thing to do.
I think most sane people want to have it lower, the contention comes when we get to how to lower it.
Cissy boy
Pardon my ignorance, but what does cis mean?
“cis” and “trans” are prefixes denoting on what “side” something is. “cis” means “on this/our side”, while “trans” refers to “the other side”, for example:
- “Cisalpina” is how the Romans referred to their side of the Alps (modern day Italy), while “Transalpina” referred to land on the other side of the alps.
- There exist certain pairs of molecules with either a “cis” or “trans” prefix, depending on whether certain identical groups are on the same side or on opposite sides, respectively.
The modern use of “cis” and “trans” is generally about gender. A cisgender person is someone whose gender identity aligns with their sex assigned at birth, while a transgender person is someone for whom that doesn’t hold true.
In this meme, the person on the right is wearing a transgender flag for a shirt, and presumably offending the cisgender person on the left by calling them cis. The meme is making fun of the fact that some cisgender people consider “cis” an insult, when it really only is a neutral and non-offensive description.
Can i just thank you so very much for that amazing etymology summary you just made? I can’t even grammar right now, love it!
I try to make this as exeggerated and stupid of an example as possible if I got it right:
So… let’s say if a 37 year old man, born male, with a wife, born female, who is married with kids with a house in suburbia and stable income, calls some regular thai ladyboy a “fag”, while said ladyboy counters “pretty harsh tone for a cis” and then that 37 year old man gets angry over the fact that he’s being called “cis”… That man is being angry about the fact that he is being called non-trans?
The outrage is more that a label is being applied to them. They want it to be ‘women’ and ‘trans women’, where only ‘non-normal’ identities get a label.
The application of ‘cis’ bothers conservatives because it changes the narrative, from people who identify as their assigned sex being ‘the default’, into cis people just another state of identity with no more significance than the others.
Huh…. Weird. And here I am, having grown up with an aunt who always wanted to be a man, and to be honest, I never questioned it. I got told as a kid that he felt he was born in the wrong body, so I just went with it. I never had the urge to call him a trans-woman or anything, not even as a teen. Might be good to get rid of that trans thing.
I’m not an expert on assholes, so I can only guess at his motivation, but I have a theory that the guy in your example maybe doesn’t actually know what cis means, but he understands his intentions behind saying “fag” so he assumes that “cis” was intended in the same way.
That’s just my take, a proctologist may have better insight.
Thanks for the clear explenation! Further comments say it’s a pretty neutral identification, but to me it sounds like there’s two sides of it and one is bad. I presume this feeling is incorrect?
It’s short for cisgender, which is basically the opposite of transgender. Cis and trans are both Latin prefixes, meaning ‘same side of’ and ‘opposite side of.’
Like Inside as the outside. Do you feel like a man and were born male, do you feel like a woman and were born female? Then you are cis. It’s the opposite of trans: inside not like the outside.
Ooh, thanks for the insight!
So does that mean one could be Cis and Gay for example? As in feeling like a man and born male, and also attracted to men?Yeah, pretty much. IIUC being trans does not have anything to do with terms for sexual attraction.
Question for the crowd who understands this better, a transwoman attracted to women is still termed a lesbian, right?
Yep. Gay transmen, Bi transpeople, Lesbian transwomen and every other sexual attraction paired with the queer spectrum.
As in feeling like a man and born male, and also attracted to men?
Yes. Those are the manliest of men.
Wasn’t cis and trans isomerism a part of Chemistry from classes 9-12, or maybe it’s just stuff education system in some countries don’t teach? I’m genuinely curious if you were/were not taught this in your school days?
Cis and trans are indeed chemistry terms to denote isomerism, but that doesn’t typically occur until college (specifically organic chemistry) in the States.
Most people probably aren’t aware of that meaning in the US.
Born as the gender you identify with.
The use of the word cis has its roots in an obscure Usenet group; it’s genesis (apparently) rooted in a desire for more inclusive language for trans folks (the notion that “gender” Vs “transgender” was too othering).
It hit Tumblr like a train in the 2010s, and became a symbolic phrase in trans counterculture. “Cisgender” was less than popular with non-trans people, as it robbed them of the illusion of normality and turned the word “gender” into a social trap.
It later found derogatory use in the phrase “cissy” (a counter for the popular derogatory term “tranny”).
It’s a fun word with an interesting history, and it has helped contribute to the wider acceptance of trans folks.
What?
Straight people are the worst of all options.
TIL ‘41’ has a long history as a slur for homosexuals
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/10/number-41-became-anti-gay-slur-mexico/
Not a common one, at least not in the US.
in the US it’s an anti trans reference to the % of trans people who had suicidal ideation in one study
I have never heard of it in this context before this post and I live in the us.
It’s actually the number of brain cells lost every time someone reads stupid shit like this on the internet
Just because you have never heard of something doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
You were one 15 second search away from not being a cunt on the internet but here you are, being proud of how ignorant you are.
People from these groups get pretty well informed about various dogwhistles and slurs that the general population won’t, because they’re used to harass us.
I am cisgender
I don’t understand why that’s a bad thing?
I don’t understand a lot of this political gender shit tbh. I’m just chillin
Samesies. Here for the support and the dank memes. Not offended to get labeled. I’m also questioning if most cisgender people take offense to the label. I feel like most wouldn’t. Maybe we’re talking about the minority that gets triggered by words that they don’t understand. I hope y’all don’t rope the whole cis culture in with the haters, because you don’t have to be queer to understand the plight of non-binary peoples. Just sayin’.
Yeah I mean I definitely don’t understand the whole non-binary thing, to me it seems silly. But they aren’t hurting anyone, or affecting my life in any way, so why care?
