I’ve been seeing this a lot lately. Lots of bandwagoning going on. It is what it is though. People are fallible and often just follow the herd instead of thinking.
I agree
I agree
You agree
We all agree for ice gree
I really like this comment
I can only imagine they meant 60% of the front view of the house. Otherwise that just seems insane.
But the problem is, words mean things. A lot of people unfortunately, put the wrong words down - and they think internally that it makes sense, but there is context missing in the words they put down. I’ve had entire conversations that went on for days, only for me to be 20 threads deep, and the person say “I mentioned that!!”, and I ask for them to show me where…only for them to realize they’ve been angry this whole time over something they assumed I was ignoring or misrepresenting. Turns out, they just simply internalized whatever it was, and didn’t write it.
We are entirely on the same page
square feet must look funny
Wow, what an awe-inspiring counter-example, lol
Am I not supposed to like that? Cause I really like that house design. Garage for days.
That looks amazing. I’d actually have space to work on a project car, plus store my daily, as well as extra storage, probably a server rack and a whole bunch of other stuff. One of the things I notice most about living in an apartment vs my childhood home is how much storage space we had in our garage.
Holy mother of a workshop
There’s so much room for activities.
Even there the house is a bit too large for me. That carage is nice though
Yeah the climates fucked with all this car worship
Tbf I once looked seriously at a house with a giant garage because I wanted to turn it into a huge hobby and rpg space.
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It’s interesting you’re proving your point by your own post being upvoted right now.
The initial number of 42% isn’t that far off of reality. My own garage/shop is 36% right now. And I will at some point add onto it. Right now it is 25’x32’ and I would like another 20’ on it. Then it would be 25’x52’ and 48%. And I live right in town, on a regular 1/4 acre lot.
There are defintely houses in Wisconsin here that are at 60%. I can go on realtor.com right now and find properties with large pole sheds and garage spaces that account for 60%.
I don’t see any claims of majority, just that it can happen. And it definitely does, unless you don’t consider steel frame buildings and pole sheds, but why wouldn’t you? Here is one example, and another example, and another example, but I could find plenty of others. Just go on realtor.com search Wisconsin and set garage spaces to 3+ and maximum home size to 2250 sq feet and you will see plenty of examples of 60% and even greater.
Another one. Another one. Okay. I’m done now because I’m starting to get garage envy looking at some of these.
I don’t know if I’m supposed to upvote you because I like your comment or downvote you for being right.
Use one instance for the upvote, and one instance for the downvote, and then tell everyone Drew Carrie was right, the points don’t matter.
They never mattered. Mostly.
Also, I wish votes weren’t a thing. I think they miss the point.
unless you don’t consider steel frame buildings and pole sheds, but why wouldn’t you?
You do not, in fact, count those buildings towards your houses square footage. Doing so would open yourself up to all sorts of liability.
Covered, enclosed porches can only be included if heated and using the same system as the rest of the house. Garages, pool houses, guest houses, or any rooms that require you to leave the finished area of the main house to gain access are not counted in the square footage of a house. source
The only common situations in which the exact size of a home may be legally important would be:
- For tax appraisal purposes
- For qualifying for a certain mortgage or home equity loan
- If a buyer has already bought, or at least has signed a contract on a home, and now claims that fraud was committed because the home is not as large as advertised. source
For further considerations of those that are interested (ANSI Draft, figure 1, page 6, outside source as the real ansi website is just atrocious to navigate and I’m not gonna dox myself by loading up local code.)
As shown, the upper-level plan has an open foyer and a protruding window that does not extend to the floor; neither area contributes to the square footage of the upper level. The calculated finished square footage of the entry level does not include the protruding fireplace, covered patio, garage, or unfinished laundry. The finished area of the basement is counted toward the below- grade finished square footage in its entirety, including the area under the stairs that descend from the entry level. The area of the unfinished utility room is calculated by using the method prescribed in the standard but is not included in the below-grade finished square footage.
All that aside, you’re slapping a 25’x52’ shed onto your 1/4 acre property? That’s almost 20% of your land use not including lot encroachment setback, drainage, and basic driveway/building infrastructure. It’s your property so definitely do as you wish, but to think this is a common practice or a desirable thing outside of niche hobbyists or being used for work related activities/storage is nonsense. Neighborhood flooding, no natural green spaces for habitats, it all sounds like a horrible dystopia on your mini-compound.
You do not, in fact, count those buildings towards your houses square footage. Doing so would open yourself up to all sorts of liability.
You don’t count garage spaces as square footage of a house either, so what is your point? If he’s comparing garage space footage to living quarter footage, then you should also include pole sheds into that equation. Fucking think about it… use the context of this conversation, and attempt to apply a little critical thinking.
All that aside, you’re slapping a 25’x52’ shed onto your 1/4 acre property? That’s almost 20% of your land use not including lot encroachment setback, drainage, and basic driveway/building infrastructure. It’s your property so definitely do as you wish, but to think this is a common practice or a desirable thing outside of niche hobbyists or being used for work related activities/storage is nonsense.
No, not adding a shed, extending my garage/shop. It has steel siding, nice windows, fully insulated 6 inch walls finished with osb on the inside, ceiling with tons of lighting, a ceiling mounted hot dawg furnace that takes it from 20F to 60F in literally 10 minutes, and perfect concrete with a drain.
Neighborhood flooding, no natural green spaces for habitats, it all sounds like a horrible dystopia on your mini-compound.
A lot of people use their garages for other things than just storing vehicles. Feel free to take a look at my YouTube videos to see how nice my garage/shop is setup now. And how nice my fenced in backyard looks, and how the garage doesn’t take away from it, nor would adding the 20’ onto the back of it. And how nicely this and my house all sit on this property. Then you can stop talking out of your ass, thanks buddy! Again, this OP has really been proving his point in a roundabout way, a lot of people in here like you talking out of their asses and getting upvotes.
Nice to see you showing your ass on a pedantic post like this.
outside of niche hobbyists or being used for work related activities/storage is nonsense
oh look, you fit the exact description I referred to! The context of this conversation is about a mass land development, try to fucking think about it.
No, not adding a shed, extending my garage/shop… perfect concrete with a drain.
perfect concrete?.. you do know a drain has to lead somewhere right? Into the surrounding area which if it was all developed like you’ve done would cause problems. “Slapping” refers to adding on or new but I see I hit a nerve talking about your “bestest shed”. Would be interesting to see the videos but I try not to support creators who are assholes and your descriptive reply does nothing for the conversation. Again, you’re helping prove the point that a few anecdotal observations isn’t the norm or recommended but seems to get upvotes. Continue arguing on though, love to see the hot gas pouring out of more than a hawt dog furnace.
Into the surrounding area which if it was all developed like you’ve done would cause problems.
You just can’t help but talk out of your ass about things you know nothing about, huh?
Again, you’re helping prove the point that a few anecdotal observations isn’t the norm
And you’re again proving the point that you’re dogshit at reading comprehension. No one made the claim that it is the norm, the claim was, “Sometimes, the garage is more than 60% of the whole house.”
You’re really latching onto that sometimes bit hard aren’t you?
the context of this post is about upvoting incorrect information, and downvoting correct information.
…information about… come on… you almost got it. I’m glad you learned about catch basins, unfortunate that you believe it negates any water run-off. You do have an outlet from the basin right? Is this a magical abyss of a basin that catches all the run off from your 3k sq ft structures and you think it’ll never fill up?
I see you’re already engaging with the OP and admitted to having horrible reading comprehension since you couldn’t discern the original intent of the post. But then you continue on with the SoMEtIMEs!! rhetoric. As you’ve stated, you’re a niche land owner who is ACTIVELY adding on to an already oversized shed, your land wasn’t originally developed that way nor is that a practice that’s done without an active home owner who has stated those needs to the builders. No one is going around developing 60%, sOmETiMeS! people add on as is their right after purchasing. Love your use of picking and choosing through the argument, truly impressive.
You’ve proven yourself to be a know-nothing blowhard over and over by now… so it should come as no surprise when I tell you this, but… I think you’re a fool, and I don’t consider your opinion whatsoever. Honestly, you should probably get some help based on how adamantly you refuse to admit wrong when it’s been quite obvious. Might be some underlying issues there. In any event, stay mad about being called out or learn from this, grow, and be happy. I have better things to do than argue with a confidently wrong blowhard that is continually arguing tangents to delay the inevitable of facing reality and admitting they are wrong. You’ve embarrassed yourself enough, you’ve wasted enough of my time. Deuces!
Excellent point. The initial intent of my squabble wasn’t trying to deny that counter-examples exist, just that when comparing 100 houses to 100 apartments, that there seemed to be losses in living space for the apartment (law of averages and whatnot).
I had made another comment on that /c/FuckCars thread that calculated that if all of the homes had 1-car garages (which is not uncommon for a lot of dense low-density suburbs), then the homes would be 1740 SqFt with the garage / 1500 SqFt Livable, and the apartments would be 1009 SqFt livable. So a 33% loss of livable space in the image with what I would consider a reasonable assumption.
Fair enough, but that is not discernible from the post. You’re highlighting what they are saying, and all they are saying is, “Sometimes, the garage is more than 60% of the whole house.” And you are implying with this post that it is factually incorrect, when it is in fact true.
Downvoting it just for using imperial units✊
When you accidentally consider your hyperbole to be factual.
Larger garages are more environmentally friendly. My garage is huge compared to my house. It has 2 cars, a laundry, and all of the stuff I don’t use every day.
This is an area that is not heated or cooled. By having all the storage in the garage, I can get by with less living space.
Garages are cheaper per square metre than rooms, so you save money there too.
You get all the stuff into the same size house, but with less building materials, less heating and cooling costs, and less clutter in your house.
Wouldn’t it be more environmentally friendly to store your cars outside and not have a garage?
No, because it gets dirty and damaged more often meaning you need to clean and repair it more often.
My car lives outside and I literally don’t do anything to it besides oil changes and occasional tire replacements. If all you have is a daily driver you really don’t need a garage.
Do you live in a place that gets lots of snow? I hear a car is practically immortal in California; unlike Ohio where the salt/brine destroying the car slowly every winter.
But the brine comes from de-iced roads, so it’s irrelevant to whether the car is parked in a garage. Maybe roadside parking could expose it to more brine due to passing traffic.
My garage is huge compared to my house. It has 2 cars, a laundry, and all of the stuff I don’t use every day.
…
You get all the stuff into the same size house
Sounds like the problem is all the stuff.
If they add in the driveway the area would probably be about the same as the house.
If we also add in the necessary roads and parking lots,it is pretty obvious that cars are creating a self-induced demand.
We need to have cars because we need to drive around space for cars.
Still beats the space and maintenance needs of a horse and buggy.
You ain’t wrong.
And the maintenance! I’ve shoveled horse shit for a living before, and let me tell ya, turning a wrench is much better.
This just gets worse when you use what developers call a two car garage now. 24x24 would be awesome, it’s more like 18x20 now despite bigger cars.
We are in that bucket and in this stupid country there aren’t many smaller cars anymore. We’re looking for a decent EV that is small and would fit in our garage. I think we have like, 2 options. Everything out there is some crossover SUV bullshit. I don’t want a giant car, I just want something smaller and comfortable for 2 people.
This sort of thing has always happened.
I do find it particularly infuriating when it’s a topic I’m knowledgeable in/involves my profession. But then I remember most people are stupid and it doesn’t bother me too much.
I’ve had the “You don’t work in X do you?” or the “tell me you don’t know about X without telling me you don’t work in X”. Oh boy my fucking bachelors and masters and years of experience in the field say otherwise FFS!
But then I remember most people are stupid and it doesn’t both me too much.
Great mantra to live by.
r/ELI5 was terrible for this
/r/ArgueLikeYouAre5
Omg, who fucking cares?
Exactly, who cares about the arrows. Sometimes I vote, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes my finger slips and I hit the wrong arrow anyway. I don’t bother to change it so I take my place as an arbiter of chaos.
Many users vote based on emotions here. I often see well written comments with the sources linked and everything, being downvoted, and some low effort reply with an opinion is upvoted, though factually incorrect.
I see that a lot too. This is the art of rhetoric, politics. Not facts. Voting is a human thing. You have to appeal to the human.
I applaud your bitterness. Bravo!
Fuckcars is just a cult anyway, they go REEEE at any suggestion that cars are a necessity for many people, and that no busses nor bikes will ever compensate for it.
I’ve followed the FuckCars community for a while (started on reddit). Being one of them car fuckers myself I would disagree. There certainly are people there whose thought process doesn’t go much further than car = bad, but boiling the whole community down to that does a disservice to their more important points. I think most people there aren’t so much advocating for less cars as much as they are advocating for policy and societal change toward a world where we aren’t so reliant on cars. Obviously for a massive chunk of the world population (especially in North America) cars are a necessity like you said, but do they need to be? Wouldn’t we all be better off if the world was less car dependent? We aren’t saying that there should be no more cars, just that we shouldn’t continue to design our cities in such a way that you need a car to live.
If you are interested in more about where the fuckcars comunity is coming from I would recommend checking out the youtube channel Not Just Bikes. All of his videos are great but I think this one is a good intro to the channel. I also like this one because it outlines a lot of the specific “first step” type things that could be much better (most applicable to north america). Also, his Strong Towns Video Series is really good if you have the time.
(here are a couple more because I can’t help myself: Why it sucks to grow up in car-centric cities, How American cities are ponzie schemes, and His video about Stroads)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=uxykI30fS54
https://piped.video/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k
https://piped.video/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa
https://piped.video/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw
https://piped.video/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0
https://piped.video/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Thank you for your well thought out, non-reactionary response. This is the energy we need on lemmy. Not more knee-jerk outrage.
As a European, its funny watching these guys talk about “Europe” as this pure implementation of their motorphobic utopia.
A lot of us still drive daily yanks!
Still. I live near Mannheim, out of the 8 people in my circle of close friends, 4 either outright do not own a car or share a car with their spouses, because their households can make do with one or less cars. They can absolutely make do with walking, bikes, tram, bus and train for everything in their daily lives. In many american cities of the same size, that would simply not be an option.
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Weird how it’s literally impossible to ever live without something no one had 100 years ago
People with chronic diseases: yeah, crazy right?
I don’t think they live in the same reality I do, or maybe they’ve never seen Texas? Even if my local area was designed for foot traffic, the amount of space between literally everything here would make it impossible not to rely on a car.
In DFW you can sum about any trip to somewhere you want to be to a 30 minute drive. Favorite restaurant that isn’t literally right next to you? 30 minutes or an hour without tolls. Work? That’s another 30 minutes. Wanna go to a store nicer than a Walmart? You guessed it. 30 minutes.
Get home from work around 4:30? We’ll now you have a cool 5 hours of time until bed time. Subtract an hour of the gym, an hour of cooking and maybe you’ve got 3 hours of time to do anything else. Waiting for public transportation or wasting time walking would just cut down even more of the hours in your day. Maybe I want more out of life than sacrificing my time to public transportation and walking.
Even if my local area was designed for foot traffic, the amount of space between literally everything here would make it impossible not to rely on a car.
If your local area was designed for foot traffic, then things wouldn’t be so spread out. One of the many reasons this is so bad in america (and this is the case in DFW) are the awful parking minimum laws that have ruined so many cities. Since the 1950’s new business developments have been required to have a minimum amount of parking so that even at max capacity there would be enough spots. In a less car-centric city almost any place you would need to visit regularly -be it a grocery store, a department store, or whatever else- would certainly be within walking distance of (or a short public transit hop away from) your home and work. But the parking minimum laws spread everything so far apart that to walk or bike anywhere is unimaginable, and it also isn’t feasible to build up good public transit because you would need stops at every major street corner (rather than in a reasonable city where you would be taking transit hops between dense clusters of businesses and other destinations).
In DFW you can sum about any trip to somewhere you want to be to a 30 minute drive. Favorite restaurant that isn’t literally right next to you? 30 minutes or an hour without tolls. Work? That’s another 30 minutes. Wanna go to a store nicer than a Walmart? You guessed it. 30 minutes. Get home from work around 4:30? We’ll now you have a cool 5 hours of time until bed time. Subtract an hour of the gym, an hour of cooking and maybe you’ve got 3 hours of time to do anything else. Waiting for public transportation or wasting time walking would just cut down even more of the hours in your day. Maybe I want more out of life than sacrificing my time to public transportation and walking.
You said “I don’t think they live in the same reality I do,” but not only is this pretty much exactly the case in the city I live in, but I have given very similar rants when complaining about living in such a car dependent area. Honestly I was confused for a moment because you have some great points on why living in a city designed for cars sucks so much. The reason I consider myself a member of the fuckcars community isn’t that I think people should walk/bike more or that I don’t like cars. It’s that I want our city designs to change. Walking, biking, and even public transit simply doesn’t make sense in most North American cities but it doesn’t have to be that way. With policy change and redesign projects over time our cities could be so much better.
